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TT: Showalter should be leery on how he uses Johnson


Tony-OH

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I dont get all the gloom and doom.

The man saved 51 out of 54 games last year.

He has 27 and its not the all-star break even.

Doom:

He out-pitched his peripherals last season.

He has not pitched well this season.

He is clearly overworked.

Gloom:

Unlike last season his blown saves are leading to losses.

Relief pitchers are a notoriously fickle lot.

What a relief pitcher did last year is not often indicative of what they will do the next year.

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Doom:

He out-pitched his peripherals last season.

He has not pitched well this season.

He is clearly overworked.

Gloom:

Unlike last season his blown saves are leading to losses.

Relief pitchers are a notoriously fickle lot.

What a relief pitcher did last year is not often indicative of what they will do the next year.

27 saves and leading both leagues in saves!

That's this year, and last year combined with last year and the year beore, shows a very good quality MLB closer.

Yeah they are fickle, and the more the home team fans boo and get on his case, the more fragile they can get.

Would you rather be the Tigers and your star closer has been DFA, because he can no longer pitch?????

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27 saves and leading both leagues in saves!

That's this year, and last year combined with last year and the year beore, shows a very good quality MLB closer.

Yeah they are fickle, and the more the home team fans boo and get on his case, the more fragile they can get.

Would you rather be the Tigers and your star closer has been DFA, because he can no longer pitch?????

27 saves and leading both leagues in save opportunities!

Last year is not of high relevance. What did Gregg do last year? How is he doing this year with the Cubs? How good was Fernando Rodney last year?

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27 saves and leading both leagues in save opportunities!

Last year is not of high relevance. What did Gregg do last year? How is he doing this year with the Cubs? How good was Fernando Rodney last year?

Lets deal with this year.

27 saves and 2 wins...not even the all-star break and speaking of the all-star game, most likely he will be going to the game.

come on, those are seriously good stats,

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Lets deal with this year.

27 saves and 2 wins...not even the all-star break and speaking of the all-star game, most likely he will be going to the game.

come on, those are seriously good stats,

I get what you're trying to say, but just pointing out that he has 27 saves doesn't have much meaning if you don't include context. As COC mentioned, Johnson has had more save opportunities than anyone else, so you would expect him to be up around the top in saves. That would be true of most pitchers.

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Lets deal with this year.

27 saves and 2 wins...not even the all-star break and speaking of the all-star game, most likely he will be going to the game.

come on, those are seriously good stats,

Please, please stop using saves and wins in your argument. This is not 1982. If you are going to argue like it's 1982, you should probably include his six losses, 4.02 ERA and his five blown saves in your argument. Johnson has blown or lost 32.7% of the Orioles losses this year.

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Lets deal with this year.

27 saves and 2 wins...not even the all-star break and speaking of the all-star game, most likely he will be going to the game.

come on, those are seriously good stats,

Only way he is going to the All-Star game is if Davis gives him a ticket.

He has 27 saves and 5 blown saves. That is 84.3%. The historic rate at which teams win during save opportunities is 85%. Johnson has been average in that context.

Fangrpahs has his WAR at .3, BR has it at .2.

His ERA is over 4, his ERA+ is 104.

He is walking almost 3 batter per 9 innings.

Right now JJ is a GUY. He is pretty much a generic relief pitcher who has a lot of saves due to the fact that he has more save chances then anyone else.

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After the extended outing on Tuesday, I think we all knew that last night's blown save was a likely possibility. This isn't just a JJ issue, it seems to be an issue with most 1 inning relievers. Their efficacy is severely dimished in extended pitch count innings and in the subsequent appearance.

As has been mentioned, to me it's how Buck used JJ. After the game, Buck said that he didn't want to "extend" JJ. So if he knew that going in, why not matchup with Patton or run Hunter out there? And I'm not trying to go 20/20 hindsight here, Buck was fully aware that JJ was iffy for last night, so why risk it?

I guess the flipside is that Buck is going to win or lose with his guy out there. Had he ran out Hunter or Patton and we lose, everyone would've been screaming for JJ. So it just comes down to results.

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You think 29K in 38 innings is above average for a "closer"?

Hey look Gregg has a WHIP under 1 and is over a K an inning.

Gregg also hasn't thrown a pitch that's mattered this year. It's easier to close for a crappy team with no chance.

It's the Erik Bedard thing. Lights out on a bad team.

Not arguing with you about JJ though, just not a Kevin Gregg fan.

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Huh?

You said that it might be the best time to trade JJ and I asked if you thought now was a better time then last offseason. (When I wanted to trade him)

WTH does that have to do with him having six losses?

Yes I think now is a better time to trade. The reason being is because I have a bad feeling he is going to completely collapse in the second half.

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The broader constraint that Buck is also working under is the generally overworked bullpen caused by the ineffective and inefficient starting pitching. Add to that the more inconsistent play of many of the relievers compared to last year (e.g. Matusz, O’Day, Patton) and I think that really limits your options for creatively using the pen. If you start using Hunter as an alternative closer how much can’t you use him in other situations? Like when Tillman pitches us to a 1-1 tie but only goes 5 and two thirds?

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