Schoop - The Blessing.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

I was listening to one of the latest Fangraphs Audio podcasts the other day and they were talking about how the shift has changed the profile of a MLB 2B to some degree.  They talked about how 2016 was one of the best years ever at the plate for the position and it may have to do with defense being somewhat less important at the 2B position now.  Specifically, they mentioned that lateral range may be lessening in value and skills such as bat, good hands, ability to turn the DP and a strong arm may be becoming more valued.

One of the biggest knocks on Schoops game (defensive side) is his reduced range due to his size.  Any chance that the FO and Buck were on board with this trend early in bringing up Schoop early?  

Good question but I think it is giving them a bit too much credit.  They needed a second baseman and Schoop was there.  Keep in mind his range was fine until the knee injury.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Good question but I think it is giving them a bit too much credit.  They needed a second baseman and Schoop was there.  Keep in mind his range was fine until the knee injury.

So, my post was supposed to be a bit broader than that question alone.  How do you think Schoop fits into this altered view of what a 2B is/should be in the majors?  Is his value better served or hindered by this trend?

[BohKnowsBmore]

Also worth mentioning, this was the Steve Pearce podcast (discussing his playing for the Blue Jays this season).  Somehow they talked about Steve Pearce playing 2B, Pedro Alvarez potentially playing 2B (not super serious) and a few other guys without bringing up Schoop even once, which seems a bit odd to me considering how well he seems to fit the mold they were discussing (and that they were talking about the O's a fair amount).

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

So, my post was supposed to be a bit broader than that question alone.  How do you think Schoop fits into this altered view of what a 2B is/should be in the majors?  Is his value better served or hindered by this trend?

That is another good question.  I'd say better served but I wouldn't be surprised to see teams shift away from extreme shifting.

[TradeAngelos]

So the Rangers just negotiated a contract for the O's/Schoop basically (Schoop hits FA a year earlier, so add just add a FA year and 16m to it or whatever), hahaha yeah I know I am dreaming. Wonder what the latest in talks are around here. Probably the same status as Machado. None.

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That is another good question.  I'd say better served but I wouldn't be surprised to see teams shift away from extreme shifting.

I personally think his value is bolstered by his ability to be the pivot man in the DP and that his strong arm really helps the shift with him in shallow right and Hardy at the 2B-ish position.  Both of these things are difficult to value in the current models (if they are at all really) and he may be among the best at them.

His value is hindered by the likely improvement of bats at the position across the board.  His bat is a big ++ in an environment where the typical 2B OPS's .650, but not so much if the standard is closer to .750.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Just now, TradeAngelos said:

So the Rangers just negotiated a contract for the O's/Schoop basically (Schoop hits FA a year earlier, so add just add a FA year and 16m to it or whatever), hahaha yeah I know I am dreaming. Wonder what the latest in talks are around here. Probably the same status as Machado. None.

And you know this how?

[TradeAngelos]

1 minute ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

And you know this how?

Link? Oh right.

The O's are backward thinking, they would never even consider spending cash until they absolutely have to. See the last.....30 years.

[BohKnowsBmore]

8 hours ago, TradeAngelos said:

Link? Oh right.

The O's are backward thinking, they would never even consider spending cash until they absolutely have to. See the last.....30 years.

Just gonna leave this here

[Can_of_corn]

7 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Just gonna leave this here

Did they or did they not wait until Davis, O'Day, and Trumbo reached free agency?  Have they extended any pre-arbitraton players?

The point wasn't that they were not spending money.

[BohKnowsBmore]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Did they or did they not wait until Davis, O'Day, and Trumbo reached free agency?  Have they extended any pre-arbitraton players?

The point wasn't that they were not spending money.

Jones and Markakis were both re-signed before hitting FA.  I believe the team signed Brian Roberts to an extension prior to FA as well.

DD was only around for the Jones deal, but it's not like the team hasn't extended guys on their pre-FA deals in the past.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Jones and Markakis were both re-signed before hitting FA.  I believe the team signed Brian Roberts to an extension prior to FA as well.

DD was only around for the Jones deal, but it's not like the team hasn't extended guys on their pre-FA deals in the past.

That would be why I specified pre-arbitration.

A lot of teams extend their players before they reach arbitration, trading an increase in risk for a lower price.

Can you think of any team in recent history, other than the O's, that have let three players of that magnitude hit free agency just to sign them?

[TradeAngelos]

Hey Jonathan you are going into your age 25 season, we are going to give you 6 years and 70m NOW. Like tomorrow. And then you can hit FA again at 30 and make who knows how much with salaries rising. You could be in line for 25-30m on a 5 year deal at that point ,who knows? Maybe even more. 

Or you can wait, make 20m over next 3 years and then HOPEFULLY make another 140m, but that will take you into your age 33 season and then the next payday (if there is one) might not be a lot. So you could cap out the rest of your career at maybe 160m if we add in the 3 arb years doing it that way. Maybe. There also of course is the chance that you lose 30-40m instead, because you just never know from one year to the next in pro sports right? A LOT can happen in 3 years Jonathan. A host of things could derail a career, and keep the future earnings very light. A down year or two...an injury....then you could be looking to Max out your money at 70m instead of using it as a floor....who knows? 

So really how much are you giving up in the overall scheme of things? Not to mention the security that comes with having 70m in the bank NOW vs 3m. 3m isn't taking care of that many people for the rest of their life. 70m can take care of generations. If it was me I'm locking in the 70m as a floor on my career earnings, with the strong possibility you can add another 150m on top of that at the end of 6 years. IF you keep your performance up for the next 3 years straight, with no hiccups at all and can maintain a high level of play. Lot of "ifs". Not many with 70m in the bank.

You would have to be a fool to not do something like that, or maybe for a year less. Either way we will never know.

[Sanfran327]

How applicable is Rougned Odor's new contract to what Schoop might get? Schoop has one more year of experience, but is two years older, and has yet to have the breakout season Odor had last year, though he's still been pretty good on both sides of the ball, IMO. Odor just signed a 6 year deal worth $49.5M. If we could get Schoop to sign that, I'd do it in a second. 

[MDtransplant757]

3 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

How applicable is Rougned Odor's new contract to what Schoop might get? Schoop has one more year of experience, but is two years older, and has yet to have the breakout season Odor had last year, though he's still been pretty good on both sides of the ball, IMO. Odor just signed a 6 year deal worth $49.5M. If we could get Schoop to sign that, I'd do it in a second. 

I'd do it too, but sweeten the deal with incentives.