Hardball Times: Tommy John

[Can_of_corn]

One day rest? Prior to the rules changes of the 1880s it was common to just use one pitcher, with someone else (often a position player) ready to go in some kind of emergency.

What was the average roster size back then, a dozen or so?

[DrungoHazewood]

What was the average roster size back then, a dozen or so?

Something like that, yes. I don't think there were rules-based limits, but almost all teams wanted to keep salaries down so they went with as few players as possible. I know by the 1890s the Orioles would carry eight position players, maybe four pitchers, a utility player, and a second catcher. But they were kind of on the cutting edge of using a primordial rotation. The papers would usually announce the battery, both pitcher and catcher, as neither position could go every day. Back in the pre-mound, underhand days I think catchers rotated more than pitchers.

In the 1880s it was still common for pitchers to play a position on their off days. Dave Foutz and Parisian Bob Caruthers would switch between the mound and RF, and (IIRC) one year they both hit .357.

[Number5]

Both ends of a double header. On one day rest.

Slackers!

[weams]

[PaulFolk]

I think you're missing some key information here, including:

1. Where is this from?

2. Who is being quoted?

[weams]

I think you're missing some key information here, including:

1. Where is this from?

2. Who is being quoted?

Oops.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some very honest, revealing comments from Aaron Barrett about what led to needing Tommy John surgery. <a href="https://t.co/rMlJK2nxkC">pic.twitter.com/rMlJK2nxkC</a></p>— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) <a href="

">December 13, 2015</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Aaron Barrett wrote it Andrew Simon tweeted it.

[weams]

Interestingly, the recent Tommy John research of MLBTR contributor Bradley Woodrum showed that the volume of what he classifies as ?hard pitches? can have significant predictive power of future UCL replacements.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/02/predicting-tommy-john-surgeries.html

[DrungoHazewood]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/02/predicting-tommy-john-surgeries.html

I've thought quite a lot about how to get pitchers to go back to throwing at 80% most of the time. It's not an easy thing, because there is a significant competitive advantage to throwing at 100% effort. If you tell most pitchers to back it off 20% they won't get hurt nearly as often but they'll also have an ERA of 6.83. You have to get everyone to do it, and then make the mound higher or the strike zone bigger to make up for it.

The only thing I can think of is small rosters, or at least limited number of pitchers. Force pitchers to go 8-9 innings most of the time. Tell teams their gameday roster can only have two active pitchers and an injury/extra innings reserve.

Or... you could make any pitch over 91 mph an automatic ball.

[weams]

http://mlbreports.com/tj-surgery/

All time list

[Redskins Rick]

Something like that, yes. I don't think there were rules-based limits, but almost all teams wanted to keep salaries down so they went with as few players as possible. I know by the 1890s the Orioles would carry eight position players, maybe four pitchers, a utility player, and a second catcher. But they were kind of on the cutting edge of using a primordial rotation. The papers would usually announce the battery, both pitcher and catcher, as neither position could go every day. Back in the pre-mound, underhand days I think catchers rotated more than pitchers.

In the 1880s it was still common for pitchers to play a position on their off days. Dave Foutz and Parisian Bob Caruthers would switch between the mound and RF, and (IIRC) one year they both hit .357.

Sounds a bit like my high school varsity baseball team. The pitchers when not pitching would play SS, 3rd or CF, and the catchers would swap back and forth between Catcher and 1st, and sometimes RF.

[DrungoHazewood]

Sounds a bit like my high school varsity baseball team. The pitchers when not pitching would play SS, 3rd or CF, and the catchers would swap back and forth between Catcher and 1st, and sometimes RF.

One marker you can use to infer quality of play is degree of specialization. If quality of play is low your best players can shift among important roles and do very well. As the competition gets tougher even the best players must have maximum reps at a small number of jobs. This also helps explain why pitchers have consistently become relatively worse hitters for 130+ years.

[Redskins Rick]

One marker you can use to infer quality of play is degree of specialization. If quality of play is low your best players can shift among important roles and do very well. As the competition gets tougher even the best players must have maximum reps at a small number of jobs. This also helps explain why pitchers have consistently become relatively worse hitters for 130+ years.

It was good enough to win county championships.

[DrungoHazewood]

It was good enough to win county championships.

It's common in little league, high school, or even college for your best pitcher, hitter, shortstop and centerfielder to be the same person. It would be the case in the lower minors if not for the forced specialization necessary to prep for higher level competition.

[weams]

[Can_of_corn]

Read the Arm, at least the free preview part.