Jump to content

Cardinals Astros


weams

Recommended Posts

  1. Chris Correa, the Cardinals’ former scouting director at the center of the scandal, will be placed on the permanently ineligible list effective immediately.
  2. The Cardinals’ two highest available selections in the 2017 First-Year Player Draft (their 2nd-round selection [pick no. 56] and Competitive Balance Round B selection [pick no. 75]) will be awarded to the Astros.
  3. The Cardinals will pay the Astros the sum of $2 million within 30 days.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2017/1/30/14442088/mlb-cardinals-astros-hacking-scandal-ruling

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Possibly too little punishment for the Cards.  Astros should have been allowed to claim the top 2 Cardinal players from the drafts that were compromised rather than the picks going forward (or given the Astros the choice of the two options)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Plutarch said:

Possibly too little punishment for the Cards.  Astros should have been allowed to claim the top 2 Cardinal players from the drafts that were compromised rather than the picks going forward (or given the Astros the choice of the two options)

 

I think they should have pushed back the forfeited first round pick to the 2018 draft.  This basically just means Fowler cost them a second round pick.

I am curious if they knew this was coming when they signed Fowler?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Not a bleeding heart liberal by any stretch but hacking into an opponents' data base for a competitive advantage shouldn't get you locked up for 46 months in prison. Was it dishonest? Yes. Should there be a penalty ? Yes. But equating this to manslaughter is a bit ridiculous considering what goes on every day in the world. Correa's life and career is ruined. This seems like cruel and unusual punishment to lock him up for four years of his life. Seems like a blatant over reach of justice.

Do you understand how many millions of dollars this private information is worth? Think of it this way, Pepsi hacks into Coke and sees Coke is is coming out with a new holiday drink in Dec. Now Pepsi can beat them to the market with their own idea and it will cost Coke tens of millions of dollars. MLB teams are each individual corporations and their proprietary information is extremely valuable. The Cardinals stole Houston's player rankings, draft notes, trade notes, etc etc and it was done so from 5 different accounts and nearly 50 times overall. The fact that the punishment wasn't significantly larger along with the story is absolutely mystifying to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

Do you understand how many millions of dollars this private information is worth? Think of it this way, Pepsi hacks into Coke and sees Coke is is coming out with a new holiday drink in Dec. Now Pepsi can beat them to the market with their own idea and it will cost Coke tens of millions of dollars. MLB teams are each individual corporations and their proprietary information is extremely valuable. The Cardinals stole Houston's player rankings, draft notes, trade notes, etc etc and it was done so from 5 different accounts and nearly 50 times overall. The fact that the punishment wasn't significantly larger along with the story is absolutely mystifying to me.

The also took the player Houston had targeted. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

Do you understand how many millions of dollars this private information is worth? Think of it this way, Pepsi hacks into Coke and sees Coke is is coming out with a new holiday drink in Dec. Now Pepsi can beat them to the market with their own idea and it will cost Coke tens of millions of dollars. MLB teams are each individual corporations and their proprietary information is extremely valuable. The Cardinals stole Houston's player rankings, draft notes, trade notes, etc etc and it was done so from 5 different accounts and nearly 50 times overall. The fact that the punishment wasn't significantly larger along with the story is absolutely mystifying to me.

Well it is the Cardinals. Americas sweetheart small market team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Not a bleeding heart liberal by any stretch but hacking into an opponents' data base for a competitive advantage shouldn't get you locked up for 46 months in prison. Was it dishonest? Yes. Should there be a penalty ? Yes. But equating this to manslaughter is a bit ridiculous considering what goes on every day in the world. Correa's life and career is ruined. This seems like cruel and unusual punishment to lock him up for four years of his life. Seems like a blatant over reach of justice.

Intellectual Property has value in every industry and there is no legal difference if it occurs in Baseball, Computer Chips, Cars, or anything else.  4 years and a felony record is not over the top.  Question is, is this guy the scapegoat for others in upper management, i.e.  who else knew and when did they know it?   Cards should be stripped of all players in the affected drafts ( with the Astros able to claim those that they had targeted) as well as losing ALL picks (not a 2nd rounder and a comp pick) for at least this draft and maybe one more.  MLB should have sent a strong message here but failed once again to do anything about a situation that society in general has labeled an criminal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/30/2017 at 2:34 PM, weams said:
  1. Chris Correa, the Cardinals’ former scouting director at the center of the scandal, will be placed on the permanently ineligible list effective immediately.
  2. The Cardinals’ two highest available selections in the 2017 First-Year Player Draft (their 2nd-round selection [pick no. 56] and Competitive Balance Round B selection [pick no. 75]) will be awarded to the Astros.
  3. The Cardinals will pay the Astros the sum of $2 million within 30 days.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2017/1/30/14442088/mlb-cardinals-astros-hacking-scandal-ruling

I get that the Cards should be penalized, but exactly why should the Astros benefit by getting two more pics? Fine the Cards, take pics away, but how exactly is justice being done when the Astros get two extra pics?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, pastorfan said:

I get that the Cards should be penalized, but exactly why should the Astros benefit by getting two more pics? Fine the Cards, take pics away, but how exactly is justice being done when the Astros get two extra pics?

If you take the picks away completely then that's less money going to the kids getting drafted.  

I agree that it's dumb that the Astros get 2 extra picks for not protecting their passwords, but I can't think of a better solution without penalizing the players also. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...