Dan places the blame for losing year squarely on the starters

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

At the time of the trade it looked fairly balanced.  Not everyone was saying  it was a good trade but it had some merit.  Trading for a major league starter for prospects and a draft choice. Norris goes on to do what he was acquired for.  Helps the O's win a division title an a chance at a World Series.   

If you look at it now, 3 year later,   Norris still did more for the O's then Hader or Fisher has done in the majors.  The two young players should pass Norris achievements in the near future but its taken 4 years to get there.   The O's needed the help in 2014 and they got it.

I certainly didn't think so.

The trade broke in three waves.

When it was Hoes I was pleased.

When it was Hoes + Hader I was apprehensive.

When it was Hoes + Hader + first round draft pick I was unhappy.  That was simply too much for a Bud Norris.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

You don't care how well Norris pitched in getting the O's to the playoff and a division title.  Sorry that is just wrong as a baseball fan.  That is what we root for.  And to say that the O's would have won any way is bunk.  Something that can not be proven.

Seriously?

The O's won by 12 games.

I think we can safely say Norris wasn't  worth 12.1 games over replacement.

[SteveA]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd expect Dan to not mention someone under contract for five more seasons.

Yeah, it's such a secret, if Dan doesn't mention it none of us would know Davis had a horrible year?

I agree with you...I would expect him not to throw someone who is under contract under the bus either.   I wouldn't want a GM who did that publically.   There's nothing to be gained by it.

[wildcard]

Just now, ArtVanDelay said:

They'll need help in 2018 too.  They aren't going to get it.

Don't bet against Dan if he has 50m to deal with.

[ArtVanDelay]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You don't care how well Norris pitched in getting the O's to the playoff and a division title.  Sorry that is just wrong as a baseball fan.  That is what we root for.  And to say that the O's would have won any way is bunk.  Something that can not be proven.

We won by 12 games!  Bud Norris did not carry us to the AL East title.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildcard said:

Don't bet against Dan if he has 50m to deal with.

Of course he might not have 50M to deal with.

He might have 60, he might have 30. he might have 10.

[ArtVanDelay]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Seriously?

The O's won by 12 games.

I think we can safely say Norris wasn't  worth 12.1 games over replacement.

Apparently 2014 Bud Norris = 1985 Dwight Gooden.

[ArtVanDelay]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Don't bet against Dan if he has 50m to deal with.

That is terrifying.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Apparently 2014 Bud Norris = 1985 Dwight Gooden.

I was going to say 1881 Hoss Radbourn but he was worth 13.5.

[24fps]

 

Attention, this just in...  prospect worship has been officially declared a fetish.  All arguments based on an excessive valuation of unproven baseball talent now requires a note from your doctor.

[TradeAngelos]

This thread progressed about EXACTLY how I thought it would. 

You people just can't handle the truth, which is exactly what Duquette said. 

"He signed Ubaldo to a 4 year deal! He signed other scrap heap pitchers that regressed to the mean too it is all his fault!"

HE IS FORCED TO SIGN THIS JUNK YEAR AFTER YEAR. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS. 

He literally doesn't have a choice in the matter. Tough position to be in as a GM I would say. I wonder if Cashman or Dombrowski operate under the same restrictions from ownership?

 

 

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, TradeAngelos said:

This thread progressed about EXACTLY how I thought it would. 

You people just can't handle the truth, which is exactly what Duquette said. 

"He signed Ubaldo to a 4 year deal! He signed other scrap heap pitchers that regressed to the mean too it is all his fault!"

HE IS FORCED TO SIGN THIS JUNK YEAR AFTER YEAR. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS. 

He literally doesn't have a choice in the matter. Tough position to be in as a GM I would say. I wonder if Cashman or Dombrowski operate under the same restrictions from ownership?

 

 

 

 

Yes when you trade away your surplus of minor league pitching depth it does force you to acquire other pitchers.

[thezeroes]

Two things in this thread are misleading.

 

Josh Hader was thought of so much by Houston that he was flipped to Milwaukee with three other players for cash and two players.

Bud Norris while being the starter had a team record of 19 Wins and 9 Losses.  So I guess those 19 Wins mean very little because we won the division by 12 Games.  Is that not a 7 team wins win above the twelve team wins in the division clinch or not??

[TradeAngelos]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yes when you trade away your surplus of minor league pitching depth it does force you to acquire other pitchers.

"Surplus of minor league pitching depth" LOLOL. 

[ArtVanDelay]

1 minute ago, thezeroes said:

Bud Norris while being the starter had a team record of 19 Wins and 9 Losses.  So I guess those 19 Wins mean very little because we won the division by 12 Games.  Is that not a 7 team wins win above the twelve team wins in the division clinch or not??