What impact will Hays, Mountcastle and Stewart have in 2020?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

In 2014 the Astros began the season on April 1st.    Springer was called up on April 15th.   Back then players had to spend 12 days in the minors for the club to get a 7th year.   The Astros didn't have a game on the 14th  so Springer was called up 1 game after he qualified for  7 years.

Here is a article on the call up.

https://www.mlb.com/news/houston-astros-outfield-prospect-george-springer-called-up/c-72209994

No grievance was filed.

Springer played 13 games in AAA before his callup.

Would you say the state of affairs between the owners and the union has deteriorated in the interim?

[wildcard]

37 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Springer played 13 games in AAA before his callup.

Would you say the state of affairs between the owners and the union has deteriorated in the interim?

Its probably about the same.  The current labor agreement was signed in late 2016.   In 2014-2015 there were discussions of  the issues between the owner and the union.  See a sample:

Quote

Pretty clearly, the existing structure is far more beneficial to owners than it is to players. The current labor agreement—the one that expires next December—is a large part of the reason for this asymmetry. In November, it was announced that the minimum salary for a MLB player will remain $507,500,the same as last year’s figure. Without question, over half a million dollars is a significant amount of money. Equally without question, though, is this: Major League Baseball players are grossly underpaid. And their minor league counterparts are even worse off.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/12/mlb-salaries-labor-contract-negotiations/419889/

 

Now that the owners have deceased the number on long term agreement the cry will be the same as before the current agreement was signed. Meanwhile  Trout, Stanton, Harper, and Machado all have contracts on 300m or more.  Alex Rodriguez 275m was the highest in 2014.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

If I'm the Union and the O's do that, and it's not an injury, I file a grievance.  It is simply too blatant an attempt. 

Then you shouldn't have agreed to the CBA!

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Its probably about the same.  The current labor agreement was signed in late 2016.   In 2014-2015 there were discussions of  the issues between the owner and the union.  See a sample:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/12/mlb-salaries-labor-contract-negotiations/419889/

 

Now that the owners have deceased the number on long term agreement the cry will be the same as before the current agreement was signed. Meanwhile  Trout, Stanton, Harper, and Machado all have contracts on 300m or more.  Alex Rodriguez 275m was the highest in 2014.

I don't agree, not at all.  The extremely slow to develop free agent market the last two seasons have, in my opinion, made an impact.  Remember, during the last CBA session the players went to the table asking for things like more days off and better post game spreads.

Anyway 13 games is not in the same league as zero games.

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't agree, not at all.  The extremely slow to develop free agent market the last two seasons have, in my opinion, made an impact.  Remember, during the last CBA session the players went to the table asking for things like more days off and better post game spreads.

Anyway 13 games is not in the same league as zero games.

There were more changes in the last CBA then that:

https://www.mlb.com/news/details-of-mlb-mlbpa-labor-agreement/c-210125462

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

There were more changes in the last CBA then that:

https://www.mlb.com/news/details-of-mlb-mlbpa-labor-agreement/c-210125462

Of course, did you expect me to list every change?  But we both know that the players were more concerned about quality of life changes.  The discussions were civil and ended quickly in an agreement.

No one is expecting the next round to be civil or end quickly.

[wildcard]

24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course, did you expect me to list every change?  But we both know that the players were more concerned about quality of life changes.  The discussions were civil and ended quickly in an agreement.

No one is expecting the next round to be civil or end quickly.

The current CBA doesn't expire until Dec 2021.  A lot can change in two years.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The current CBA doesn't expire until Dec 2021.  A lot can change in two years.

What relevance does that have?  We aren't talking about December 2021.  April 2020 isn't far away at all.

[SteveA]

On 10/12/2019 at 1:51 PM, wildcard said:

I am just looking at the ability to sustain a rally because of more good hitters in the lineup.  If they keep Villar(big if):

Villar, Hays, Mancini, Mountcastle, Nunez, Santander, Alberto, Ruiz, Severino/Sisco.  plus Stewart and Wilkerson off the bench.

No such thing as a rally anymore.   Get a walk and hit one out.*

 

*Except in the postseason where they de-juice the balls to produce tense pitchers duels and keep [most of] the games under 4 hours despite longer commercials.

[SteveA]

8 hours ago, wildcard said:

I don't believe Mountcastle will play a day in the minors in 2020.

I believe Mountcastle not being with the team on OD is all about service time.  I think it will become apparent, if it isn't already,  in ST that Mouncastlle is ready to hit in the majors.    He has to be assigned to the minors for 15 days to get a 7th year before he is eligible for FA..   That means he will not be called up until April 10th.    The Tides don't open up their season until April 9th.    I think instead of Mountcastle going from Florida to Norfolk  he will travel to Baltimore to get ready to play the Pirates at Camden Yards. on the April 10th.

I know Elias said Mountcastle will start the season in the minors to work on his plate discipline and fielding but he will work with the major league staff on that for 6 weeks in ST.    His bat will speak loud IMO and he will be with the O's on the April 10th.  Its not smart for Elias to talk about service time because of league rules.  But that does not mean he can't change his mind based on what he sees in ST.

So there is 14 days between the opening of the major league season and the minor league season?

Hasn't that traditionally been MUCH less?   Back when the majors opened on Monday, the minors opened three or four days later on Thursday and Friday.

Then a few years ago when MLB started opening on a Thursday, I believe there has been about one week until the minor league season opened, on the next Thursday.

Now you are saying this year there will be TWO weeks?   That seems a long time for guys to go not getting competitive game action.   Will they keep minor league camp games going for those two weeks?

[SteveA]

5 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Let's assume that Villar is traded, as he should be. Wilkerson is a classic utility guy but not an everyday player.

I agree that Alberto has potential at 2B. I don't quite believe his bat. Even with his crazy year, he has a terrible OBP and only hit .609 OPS vs RHP. I still believe he is ideally suited as a weak side platoon player/PH. I do not think he is a good long term solution as everyday 2B. How about platoon Alberto vs LHP and Mountcastle vs RHP, with Mountcastle shifting to LF or DH vs LHP?

Who else? Bannon? He hit in a small sample at Norfolk but only .740 at Bowie.

Now, maybe Mountcastle is "that bad" that it's not even worth a shot. I guess that's my question. From what I heard, the main problem with him at SS/3B has been arm, but that is less of a concern at 2B.

You are going at this backwards.   They are not going to look at the 2020 team that is not expected to win, and notice that it has a deficit of talent in the middle infield, and use that as a reason to try Mountcastle there (which would be about his 5th position to try in the last 5 or 6 years).

They are going to look at Mountcastle as a player, determine what is best for his development and what position he has the best chance to perform well and have a good major league career at, and that is where he will play.   The fact that the 2020 major league team has a need somewhere will have absolutely zero impact on that decision.   The only way he would play 2nd is if they decided that was the best place for him to have a quality major league career.

[weams]

5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

You are going at this backwards.   They are not going to look at the 2020 team that is not expected to win, and notice that it has a deficit of talent in the middle infield, and use that as a reason to try Mountcastle there (which would be about his 5th position to try in the last 5 or 6 years).

They are going to look at Mountcastle as a player, determine what is best for his development and what position he has the best chance to perform well and have a good major league career at, and that is where he will play.   The fact that the 2020 major league team has a need somewhere will have absolutely zero impact on that decision.   The only way he would play 2nd is if they decided that was the best place for him to have a quality major league career.

Thank you

[SteveA]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If I'm the Union and the O's do that, and it's not an injury, I file a grievance.  It is simply too blatant an attempt. 

Any more blatant than what the Blue Jays were going to do with Vlad Jr (and they were already talking about needing to go down to "work on his defense") when he conveniently pulled his oblique.

Besides, what is wrong with doing what is best for your organization longterm as long as it is within the rules?   When the Orioles sent guys like Wei Yin Chen to the minors between starts they were pretty blatant about it, they didn't even try to say that he needed to "work on something" or that he was in any way lacking major league talent.   He had an option, the rules allowed him to be sent down, and he was.

The union negotiated service time rules with the teams.   Once the rules are in place, why should the owners (or the players) not act in what they feel is each of their best interests without violating the rules?   I don't see the basis for filing a grievance.   If the union doesn't like it, they can try to change the rules in the next CBA which is approaching like a freight train as we speak.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, SteveA said:

Any more blatant than what the Blue Jays were going to do with Vlad Jr (and they were already talking about needing to go down to "work on his defense") when he conveniently pulled his oblique.

Besides, what is wrong with doing what is best for your organization longterm as long as it is within the rules?   When the Orioles sent guys like Wei Yin Chen to the minors between starts they were pretty blatant about it, they didn't even try to say that he needed to "work on something" or that he was in any way lacking major league talent.   He had an option, the rules allowed him to be sent down, and he was.

The union negotiated service time rules with the teams.   Once the rules are in place, why should the owners (or the players) not act in what they feel is each of their best interests without violating the rules?   I don't see the basis for filing a grievance.   If the union doesn't like it, they can try to change the rules in the next CBA which is approaching like a freight train as we speak.

Yea, the plan outlined has him not playing any games.  That's worse than the Vlad situation.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yea, the plan outlined has him not playing any games.  That's worse than the Vlad situation.

He just played AAA for a year.