GREAT NEWS!!! Kim gains eligibility

[Dr. FLK]

I think we're selling Baxter, Blake, Dixon, etc. a little short. They were still very good recruits with borderline NBA talent. And before that he had Hipp, Booth, etc.

I don't think either Dixon or Baxter were anything but longshots for the NBA. He took them because they were good, local players and they blossomed...fax-exceeding expectations.

Williams “just gets the most out of them. It’s easy when ‘X University’ gets eight McDonald’s All-Americans and half of them become pros. They might have been pros coming out of high school. Those kids that Gary has put in the NBA, none of them were top-50 players, maybe not even top-75. [Chris] Wilcox may have been top-50, but look at Juan Dixon. And Lonnie Baxter, I don’t think he was even top-75 in his class.”

SOURCE

[inmn]

I don't think either Dixon or Baxter were anything but longshots for the NBA. He took them because they were good, local players and they blossomed...fax-exceeding expectations.

"Williams “just gets the most out of them. It’s easy when ‘X University’ gets eight McDonald’s All-Americans and half of them become pros. They might have been pros coming out of high school. Those kids that Gary has put in the NBA, none of them were top-50 players, maybe not even top-75. [Chris] Wilcox may have been top-50, but look at Juan Dixon. And Lonnie Baxter, I don’t think he was even top-75 in his class.”

SOURCE

SOURCE

This is an urban legend. Like most coaches GW's best teams were his most talented. The championship team had Baxter (80), Blake (55), Wilcox (23), Holden (75), Mouton (I believe top 50 to Tulane), and Randle (JC AA). They also had Francis (JC AA, #2 pick) and Miller (27) during those recruiting classes. Dixon was not ranked and did far exceed expectations.

http://rscihoops.com/

[Tony-OH]

I think we're selling Baxter, Blake, Dixon, etc. a little short. They were still very good recruits with borderline NBA talent. And before that he had Hipp, Booth, etc.

In my opinion, this is the first stretch during his tenure at MD that he really failed this thoroughly on a recruiting level. He may never land the Carmelos but I don't think he needs to. There are a lot of good to great athletes that he can turn into ballers with his ability to coach, and these are the players that he needs to get back to acquiring. He's clearly failed in this regard in recent years, but I believe pretty strongly that it's a blip.

I also believe that, between the Gilchrist/McCray fiascoes, some of his key assistants leaving, and his icy relationship with Yow, his ability to recruit solidly is being hampered. All those things combine for a lot of ammo that competing schools can use against him in attempting to woo players. It's possible that he can't overcome these issues. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least a couple more years.

I also disagree with the assertion that we're blinded by the Gary Williams kool-aid. Maybe some of us are, but as Mackus pointed out, most of us recognize his faults. The difference (at least for me) is that I believe that Williams has the ability to fix his own problems. He's fixed far more serious problems in the past (albeit ones he inherited), so I think we should give him the chance to do it now. If he fails to turn it around within the next couple years, then maybe it will be time to give him the axe, but not now.

Sorry my friend, but this entire post just proves my points. All you did was make excuses which is exactly what you guys do. He created this current situation through laziness and/or a lack of desire to change with the times when it came to recruiting. As my signature says, "Action speaks louder than words" and honestly, that could read, "Results speak louder than excuses."

Maybe that will be my next sig.

BTW, you guys don't drink Gary Williams kool-aid because he would be too lazy to make it. No, you guys actually make your own kool aid while dancing around golden effigies of your guy. (Before anyone gets all upset again I'm just joking...everyone knows you guys can't afford gold and most like use paper mache. :mwahaha:

[Ruzious]

Sorry my friend, but this entire post just proves my points. All you did was make excuses which is exactly what you guys do.

I'm giving up on this basketball forum. I understand you're trying to get a reaction, but if you're going to keep on disrespecting me and others here, it takes away the enjoyment.

[Golgo]

Sorry my friend, but this entire post just proves my points. All you did was make excuses which is exactly what you guys do. He created this current situation through laziness and/or a lack of desire to change with the times when it came to recruiting. As my signature says, "Action speaks louder than words" and honestly, that could read, "Results speak louder than excuses."

Maybe that will be my next sig.

BTW, you guys don't drink Gary Williams kool-aid because he would be too lazy to make it. No, you guys actually make your own kool aid while dancing around golden effigies of your guy. (Before anyone gets all upset again I'm just joking...everyone knows you guys can't afford gold and most like use paper mache. :mwahaha:

Thanks for stopping by to troll Mr. Publisher!

[Tony-OH]

I'm giving up on this basketball forum. I understand you're trying to get a reaction, but if you're going to keep on disrespecting me and others here, it takes away the enjoyment.

Stop crying. You have your opinion and I have mine. I'm just joking around with the kool air stuff, stop getting your panities all in a twist. I'm not disrespecting anyone. I'm just joking around with the kool-aid stuff and even put smilies behind it.

I'm actually having fun because this is so easy. All of the facts are on our side and the only thing the GW supporters can do is hope. They have no reasonable reasons to believe Gary should stay other than hope and a consistent opinion that it's all been bad luck and that Gary can somehow change his stripes overnight and suddenly put in the effort at an older age when he's proven he's not going to to do it.

It takes all kinds of fans to make the world go around, including the ones that refuse to see the facts in front of them.

I respect Gary Williams as an X's and O's coach, but unfortunately, there's much, much more than that to being the head of a major college program.

Now,

[Tony-OH]

Thanks for stopping by to troll Mr. Publisher!

Thanks for your comments. Enjoy the sunspot boards.

[Tony-OH]

Not many coaches can take a team from the depths of the sport to a national championship

I'm worried about getting onto the coaching carausel and going around with a new coach every few years. That would be far worse then anything we are going through as a program now.

That's a vaid concern BTerp, but I'm willing to take a chance. If they bring in the right guy though, we could have a tremendous program again. I would prefer to get a younger more energetic coach that hopefully will be the next guy for another 25-30 years.

There is always going to be certain amount of risk, and I can understand your apprehension, but I guess for me I'm just fed up and I don't see the end in sight.

Maryland basketball is too important to me in order keep my sports fix on during the winter months that I can't stand seeing it melt away like it has, especially when you find out Williams has not even used his entire scouting budgets over the years and all the top local talent goes elsewhere.

[Tony-OH]

Good post. As I've said before there is no doubt in my mind a new coach can and probably will land better talent than what Gary has been bringing in. At this point I agree with you in that I'll take a coach who is an unknown quality when it comes to X's and O's but that can recruit top talent over Gary who we know is good at the X's and O's but is a very poor recruiter.

I understand that in general people are conservative and afraid of change. They see what Gary has done over most of his 20 years here and say that is good enough. The consecutive tourny appearances, the numerous sweet 16 appearances, the two final fours and NC. Gary deserves a lot of praise and credit for acomplishing what he has done here at Maryland. The problem is Gary wasn't and isn't going to be the guy to take advantage of the NC and the Comcast Center and push this program higher than where he had it in the '90s. Gary has set expectations so low in recent years that being that consistent tourny team with the ability to make a sweet 16 run is going to be worthy of praise when it is simply getting the program back to where it was in the 90's.

If the next coach uses all of his resources and works hard he will have a very good opportunity to do a better job than Gary. He should be able to bring in better talent and make this program consistently better. I don't think people realize just how poorly Gary has done post National Championship and how much better this program can be. That said, I agree with the people who say that you can't have Gary thrown under a bus and leave on bad terms. A lot of coaches respect him and having him fired or leaving on bad terms would probably hurt our chances of bringing in the guy we want. Ideally, Gary in the next few years gets the program back on track and back to being a consistent tourny team and he goes out with his head held high and with the program looking up again.

Great post by the way....

[Eight]

All of the facts are on our side and the only thing the GW supporters can do is hope.

Do you actually believe this or is this just you getting the "kool-aid drinkers" riled up? Assuming this actually a sincere opinion, I am hoping you can break down specifically what factual reasons prove that the 09-10 or 10-11 teams will not be successful as well as the deficiencies in the 2008 or 2009 recruiting classes and the potential recruits in the 2010 class.

[Mackus]

Do you actually believe this or is this just you getting the "kool-aid drinkers" riled up? Assuming this actually a sincere opinion, I am hoping you can break down specifically what factual reasons prove that the 09-10 or 10-11 teams will not be successful as well as the deficiencies in the 2008 or 2009 recruiting classes and the potential recruits in the 2010 class.

Exactly.

The team has struggled in recent years. But the fact that the '05, '06, and '07 classes weren't very good in no way means the '08, '09, or '10 classes won't be good.

Facts show that the recent past has been bad. Not that the recent future will be bad. And they definitely don't show that Gary no longer has the ability to be a top level coach, thats just a made up conclusion from Tony. Its no more accurate or factually based than the opinion than Gary still does have the ability to be good now and in the future.

[BaltimoreTerp]

That's a vaid concern BTerp, but I'm willing to take a chance. If they bring in the right guy though, we could have a tremendous program again. I would prefer to get a younger more energetic coach that hopefully will be the next guy for another 25-30 years.

There is always going to be certain amount of risk, and I can understand your apprehension, but I guess for me I'm just fed up and I don't see the end in sight.

Maryland basketball is too important to me in order keep my sports fix on during the winter months that I can't stand seeing it melt away like it has, especially when you find out Williams has not even used his entire scouting budgets over the years and all the top local talent goes elsewhere.

See Tony, this is fair. You have your opinion, and I have mine. And I'd be willing to listen to it more if in the same thread you wouldn't put crap like...

BTW, you guys don't drink Gary Williams kool-aid because he would be too lazy to make it. No, you guys actually make your own kool aid while dancing around golden effigies of your guy. (Before anyone gets all upset again I'm just joking...everyone knows you guys can't afford gold and most like use paper mache. :mwahaha:

...in here.

[Tony-OH]

See Tony, this is fair. You have your opinion, and I have mine. And I'd be willing to listen to it more if in the same thread you wouldn't put crap like...

...in here.

Did you not see the smilies? Have you never sat around a bar and ribbed each other a bit? The crying in this thread is bordering on insanity.

I PUT EMOTICONS LIKE CINDY IN THE DANG POST TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW I'M JUST JOKING AROUND!!!!!

I do personally think SOME posters support of GW borders on a cult-like devotion but I also understand their are varying degrees of support. I've used hyperbole in the thread which is what has seemed to have gotten a few of you all's panties in a bunch, so I'll say I'm sorry, even though I did put about three different smilies in the dang posts.

Look, I'll stop now. FLK, inmn, ccbird and I will stop all this nonsense with facts and allow you guys to discuss the real issues of how to fix this mess with the same people who put us here.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Did you not see the smilies? Have you never sat around a bar and ribbed each other a bit? The crying in this thread is bordering on insanity.

I PUT EMOTICONS LIKE CINDY IN THE DANG POST TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW I'M JUST JOKING AROUND!!!!!

I do personally think SOME posters support of GW borders on a cult-like devotion but I also understand their are varying degrees of support. I've used hyperbole in the thread which is what has seemed to have gotten a few of you all's panties in a bunch, so I'll say I'm sorry, even though I did put about three different smilies in the dang posts.

Look, I'll stop now. FLK, inmn, ccbird and I will stop all this nonsense with facts and allow you guys to discuss the real issues of how to fix this mess with the same people who put us here.

It's not joking if it isn't funny, and you know very well that if anyone spoke that way towards you they would be off posting wherever Golgo is now. And that last paragraph just makes me wonder who the one whining and crying is, especially when you have a specific request for "facts" a couple posts above.

Sorry Tony, but I can't your opinion seriously until you can take mine seriously, and right now I can't see you feeling that way. So, I suggest we just let this go before your banning finger is worn out.

[Tony-OH]

Exactly.

The team has struggled in recent years. But the fact that the '05, '06, and '07 classes weren't very good in no way means the '08, '09, or '10 classes won't be good.

Facts show that the recent past has been bad. Not that the recent future will be bad. And they definitely don't show that Gary no longer has the ability to be a top level coach, thats just a made up conclusion from Tony. Its no more accurate or factually based than the opinion than Gary still does have the ability to be good now and in the future.

:rofl::rofl::rofl: I love it when you are consistent, buddy. Keep the faith.

By no way should we let the past dictate what the future will hold. I mean seriously, who really does that? Who really cares about the losing season and the poor recruits and the piles of evidence that Williams has not even put out the effort to recruit top players into what should be an elite basketball program? No, let's hope this next draft class will be better for some reason.

Seriously, what professional business cares about past results? No, it's all about hoping for the future. Who cares if the guy who put us in this mess got us here, he certainly can get us out. He's the best because he won a National Championship. He's super, duper and all that stuff about players not graduating and not going to the NBA, and not even getting into the NCAA tournament, aw that's those terrible players fault. It's not Gary's fault that they left school early, flunked tests, transferred, can't get eligible, or did not develop while at the school for four or five year.

No, it's not his fault at all. In fact, as George Carlin once said, "It's the dog's fault!!"

Yes, that's it, from now on I'm going to blame GW's dog. It must be his fault that a once elite program is now a NIT program that has put more players in the Israeli Professional League than the NBA.

Curse the dog!!!

Yeah Gary, he's our man, if he can't do it, nobody can! And we mean it. No one, not a soul can do better, no way no how. Don't even think about it. When our Gary decides to step down, we can only hope he has provided as an heir for the program because lord knows when that day comes the program will self destruct and we'll be remembering the good old days of second round NIT defeats.