MacPhail: "We've taken a giant step backwards."

[Dipper9]

The problem with this scenario is that it will just be yet another reason for PA to not open up his purse.

When teams like the Twins can afford a 90+ million dollar payroll and we are crying poor, there is a problem.

I know people don't like the conspiracy theories about PA wanting AM because he is cheap but I think to totally dismiss it is wrong. AM can build a foundation and he can bring in the young talent but can he/will he take that next step to acquire real talent to augment this core? What reason do we have to believe that he will?

He was able to rip off Pittsburgh and Florida and get ARam and Lee in Chicago..Great trades...What are the chances you can make those moves again?

Agreed! As much as I hate to admit it, Drew's opinion that MacPhail was brought on board to drive down the team payroll appears more and more to be a possibility rather than a shot at the owner.

[BrunoCherrytown]

The problem with this scenario is that it will just be yet another reason for PA to not open up his purse.

When teams like the Twins can afford a 90+ million dollar payroll and we are crying poor, there is a problem.

I know people don't like the conspiracy theories about PA wanting AM because he is cheap but I think to totally dismiss it is wrong. AM can build a foundation and he can bring in the young talent but can he/will he take that next step to acquire real talent to augment this core? What reason do we have to believe that he will?

He was able to rip off Pittsburgh and Florida and get ARam and Lee in Chicago..Great trades...What are the chances you can make those moves again?

I think it's pretty tough to argue his ability to work a 'for prospects' trade. He's awesome there. Undeniably.

But to look at his payroll rankings in chicago it's impossible to call him a 'spender'. Chicago should be top 5 in payroll almost every year, and I believe he generally hovered around the middle of the pack despite being in the #3 media market. That's just ridiculous.

[SilentJames]

The problem with this logic is that Angelos has shown in the past that he will open the pocket book to bring people in.

These are boilerplate arguments when teams struggle and no one would be saying it if the Orioles were hovering around .500 right now.

That being said - the Orioles have taken a giant step backwards and it is severely disheartening. I know that everyone involved with the team is feeling it. Adam Jones should not be struggling like this, Mike Gonzalez should not have crapped the bed, Brian Roberts should not have gotten hurt, Bergy should not have struggled, Markakis should not have scuffled this much out of the gate.

None of these things should have happened, but they did. The team took a giant step backwards.

[SteveA]

The opening to this season has been both ugly and painful, but it's so far outside baseball norms that I wouldn't use it as a basis for anything. If the team is this bad at the halfway point you have a major problem. Right now you ave a fluke.

Ah, that old argument. We've been SO BAD that we can't really judge the team.

While I understand the logic of sample sizes and such, I still find this argument amusing. If we were just having a "normal" bad season, say playing .400 ball, no one would be able to bring this up, so I guess that means in that case it would be OK to be concerned about lack of hitting or whatever was causing our .400 start. But because our start is SO BAD that it falls outside norms, we aren't supposed to draw any conclusions from it.

When does the statistical fluke turn into the disaster? When is the magic date when suddenly we can stop pretending there isn't an elephant in the room before we suffocate in a pile of elephant ****?

[NewMarketSean]

There is no reason the Orioles can't spend more and get a player every couple of offseasons that is considered a premiere free agent.

No reason at all.

[Dipper9]

The problem with this logic is that Angelos has shown in the past that he will open the pocket book to bring people in.

These are boilerplate arguments when teams struggle and no one would be saying it if the Orioles were hovering around .500 right now.

But the flipside is that HAD we spent a little money, we most definitely would not be 4-18 after 22 games!

[Orioles18]

But the flipside is that HAD we spent a little money,we most definitely would not be 4-18 after 22 games!

That's not a guarantee. If we could get a clutch hit then we'd probably be something like 10-12 or 12-10.

[NewMarketSean]

The problem with this logic is that Angelos has shown in the past that he will open the pocket book to bring people in.

These are boilerplate arguments when teams struggle and no one would be saying it if the Orioles were hovering around .500 right now.

That being said - the Orioles have taken a giant step backwards and it is severely disheartening. I know that everyone involved with the team is feeling it. Adam Jones should not be struggling like this, Mike Gonzalez should not have crapped the bed, Brian Roberts should not have gotten hurt, Bergy should not have struggled, Markakis should not have scuffled this much out of the gate.

None of these things should have happened, but they did. The team took a giant step backwards.

There are reasons these things happen though -- and have continued to happen to the Orioles for years. This team is no stranger to the 20-30 game implosion. A 4-18 record in 22 games is really nothing new. I can rattle off probably 5 or 6 instances where the team totally shut down for 20-30 games.

It's AM's job to get to the root of the problem in Baltimore and fix it. I am not sure if he can 100% fix it with Angelos being the owner but it's time to seriously examine this organization's structure, philosophy toward the game, and personnel.

I hate to say it...but it might be time to blow it up....again. And this time I mean the coaches, scouts, front office, every one.

[msporter4]

It isn't about spending money if you don't spend the money correctly. When you go out and bring in guys who are on their last legs or are just not good ballplayers then you reep what you sow.

2006

Danys Baez $19 million

Chad Bradford $10 Million

Aubrey Huff $20 million

Jay Payton $9.5 million

Jamie Walker $12 million

2007

Steve Trachsel minor league deal

2008

Koji Uehara $10 million

Cesar Izturis $5 million

Ty Wigginton $6 million

2009

Garrett Atkins $4.5 million

Mike Gonzalez $12 million

[SilentJames]

There are reasons these things happen though -- and have continued to happen to the Orioles for years. This team is no stranger to the 20-30 game implosion. A 4-18 record in 22 games is really nothing new. I can rattle off probably 5 or 6 instances where the team totally shut down for 20-30 games.

It's AM's job to get to the root of the problem in Baltimore and fix it. I am not sure if he can 100% fix it with Angelos being the owner but it's time to seriously examine this organization's structure, philosophy toward the game, and personnel.

I hate to say it...but it might be time to blow it up....again. And this time I mean the coaches, scouts, front office, every one.

Why do those things happen? I would say that the FO has not been able to make effective mid-year trades and the minor league depth has been horrific during those times.

Combine that with the last month of the season we are usually playing the Yankees and Red Sox a ton and you get what you get.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think that a terrible April is cause to "blow up" anything.

If we have a terrible April, May and June - then come get me.

[DocJJ]

It isn't about spending money if you don't spend the money correctly. When you go out and bring in guys who are on their last legs or are just not good ballplayers then you reep what you sow.

2006

Danys Baez $19 million

Chad Bradford $10 Million

Aubrey Huff $20 million

Jay Payton $9.5 million

Jamie Walker $12 million

2007

Steve Trachsel minor league deal

2008

Koji Uehara $10 million

Cesar Izturis $5 million

Ty Wigginton $6 million

2009

Garrett Atkins $4.5 million

Mike Gonzalez $12 million

AMEN!

Plus, the best players don't want to play in Baltimore. Why play for a losing last-place type team, when you can play for the Yankees and collect World Series Rings???

[Going Underground]

Is MacPhail that great a GM ? He gets credit for the Twins. Chicago he was not that great. Some interesting tidbits:

The Twins had some talent. However, it should be repeated here that Pucket, Hrbek, Viola, Brunansky, Gaetti and Burt Blyleven were already in place when supposed "Boy Wonder" Andy MacPhail came skipping into town. In fact, the only everyday position player that MacPhail had acquired was outfielder Dan Gladden--all of the other everyday starters had been in Minnesota's system before MacPhail had come on board in '85. Of their five-man rotation, the only MacPhail acquisition was aging veteran Joe Niekro, whose 6.26 ERA as the fifth starter left him out of the postseason rotation, limiting him to two innings. The only other significant pickup by MacPhail was, admittedly, a legitimate one--closer Jeff Reardon. Yet picking up a closer for a ready-made team is hardly anything more significant than what Jim Frey did for the '89 Cubs when he got Mitch Williams. At least MacPhail didn't deal a future 500 home run hitting first baseman and future 200-game winning southpaw to get his man, so he's got that going for him.

The Twins followed up their second World Championship with a 90-win season in 1992. And the '92 Twins turned out to be the last +.500 season for Andy MacPhail's Minnesota teams. In nine full seasons from 1986-1994, the Twins amassed a 751-707 record, but only finished above .500 in four of those nine seasons. So even after their first title, the Twins only finished above .500 in three of the following seven seasons. This pattern of inconsistency--which indicates a major lack of planning-- was not only something that would be evident in MacPhail's later years in Chicago, but was actually averted in Minnesota by MacPhail's successor Terry Ryan, who is in the process of finishing his sixth consecutive winning season for the Twins.

As for MacPhail's in Chicago, well shoot. Where do you start? He burned through three general managers, one of whom was himself, who signed a thirty-one year old Todd Hundley to a four-year deal. His teams compiled a woeful 916-1011 record. MacPhail's teams finished above .500 only five times in his twelve seasons, which is also the same number of seasons in which his teams lost at least 94 games. In those twelve seasons, the Cubs failed to develope a legitmate, blue-chip offensive starter. They've wasted #1 picks on such forgettable names as Todd Noel, Ben Christansen, Luis Montanez, Bobbie Brownlie and Ryan Harvey. Most of these players are out of baseball, and some are still flailing away in obscurity, apparently no closer to real major league sucess than they were when they were drafted by Andy MacPhail's "braintrust".

[NewMarketSean]

Why do those things happen? I would say that the FO has not been able to make effective mid-year trades and the minor league depth has been horrific during those times.

Combine that with the last month of the season we are usually playing the Yankees and Red Sox a ton and you get what you get.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think that a terrible April is cause to "blow up" anything.

If we have a terrible April, May and June - then come get me.

I applaud you for your patience...but really, when have we been proven wrong by this team? When have they ever dug themselves out of a hole? When have they ever gone on an elongated period of good baseball??? You think they are going to recover from a 4-18 start?

Maybe I am just being too negative again...but come on. We are 4-18!!!

It's time to fire Trembley and every other coach aside from Kranitz. It's time to try something different to save this season...and then next off season, I think the O's should go to a self-help seminar or something. Go see Tony Robbins.

something.

[Smokin' Joe O]

I'm already extremely apathetic. I feel now like I normally feel in late august.

And it sucks.

Yep...I usually can rely on the O's to get me well into the summer so that NFL is right around the corner. We're not even into May and I'm spending more time reading up on the upcoming football season.

Oh well, maybe the O's will actually improve as the season goes on and give us hope in August/September?

[BrunoCherrytown]

It isn't about spending money if you don't spend the money correctly. When you go out and bring in guys who are on their last legs or are just not good ballplayers then you reep what you sow.

2006

Danys Baez $19 million

Chad Bradford $10 Million

Aubrey Huff $20 million

Jay Payton $9.5 million

Jamie Walker $12 million

2007

Steve Trachsel minor league deal

2008

Koji Uehara $10 million

Cesar Izturis $5 million

Ty Wigginton $6 million

2009

Garrett Atkins $4.5 million

Mike Gonzalez $12 million

Who on here is a game changer? Who on here WAS a game changer at any point in their career?

It's easy to get THESE guys. Heck if we are hoisting this up as proof that the O's will "spend money" then just about any OH'er could legitimately be the GM.

The only names I care about seeing are premier free agents listed. And we don't spend THAT money ever. We can fill a room with our washed up/never were/never gonna be/ overpriced cast off signings.