Tony-OH

Have to imagine his number is pretty high which may have scared some teams off. The fact that he's got a chance to go to a premier college program in LSU means he's probably heading there at this point unless somebody has enough extra cash and decides to take a flier on him late as an insurance policy against another guy not signing.

What in my statement was wrong? Do you believe any of the guys you mentioned are going to become everyday major league players? I stand by my statement. Outside of Ortiz, Elias/Ciolek have struggled to find good college hitters after the 2nd round. I didn't say they lack the ability to find them or they are terrible at that, I just provided an actual fact. Now you can say the book has not been written on the that guys you mentioned and you are right, but my statement as written is correct as of this date. My main point is prefer they go with pitchers or high school hitters with some upside but a greater risk of flaming out vs guys with limited upside to begin with like most of the guys you mentioned.

The development of Ortiz over COVID is really the story there. Outside of Ortiz, Elias/Ciolek have really struggled to find college hitting prospects after the 2nd round.

I feel like they've had some success with the guys you've mentioned, but it's worth noting that they were guys with good arms that all came from other organziations at some point. None of them were drafted by Elias/Ciolek. Kremer and Bradish and Wells to an extent, are the biggest feathers in the cap for the Orioles development, but they all seemed to find that development with Holt or at least under Holt's tutelege. The Orioles almost totally reworked Bradish from the weird completely overhead fastball-curveball guy into the pitcher we now see. Without a doubt he's a pitching development win. Kremer also was reworked from mainly a fastball, curveball, hard change guy into the five pitch guy we see now. Kremer's velocity also has ticked up from when he arrived from the Dodgers. He's definitely a development win. Wells has also been developed nicely and has really shown an ability to stay healthy and eat innings consistently despite his longball issues. I think the Orioles thought they could find pitchers in the 10th-20th rounds with pitch shapes that they liked and mold them into major league pitchers, but honestly, that has failed so far. There's a reason these guys were still available in those rounds and they show up with a lack of command, lack of velocity on the fastball, or just a lack of a real major league out pitch. This is why this year's draft is so exciting from my perspective. This is the year they are now going with guys earlier in the draft who have more velocity to work from. Now velocity is not everything as guys like Kade Strowd and Ofreidy Gómez (hits 99 regularly) can attest to, but I'd rather start with better velocity and command, and teach the pitch shaping. If you look at the guys they took, they have have pretty decent walk rates even if their ERAs are not good. Now, they may be just guys who struggle with inconsistency and that's something you can not really know about until they've been in your system awhile. Even at the major league level, Mike Baumann is a good example of a guy with good stuff who is just very inconsistent from outing to outing. Will he ever put it together consistently? Who knows? Will the pitchers drafted this year do it? We shall see, but I like having the numbers to work from because right now, the Orioles minor league pitching is not very good prospect wise. Hopefully this will change if the Orioles can find a gem or two from this draft.

A little bit of RZNJ just died. Releases are never fun and obviously you feel for the guy, but he just couldn't hit good off speed pitches. He was a minor league Pedro Cerrano! Seems like a guy that might be able to have some success in a independent league if he wanted to finish off the season or someone will need some outfield depth at AA or A+ and give him a shot if he wants to finish his season. Unfortunately, as good as Elias/Ciolek have been with drafting, they have really struggled with college hitters after the 2nd round. I really wonder if they will change up the philosophy a bit and try and find more Darrell Hernaiz's vs the Donta Williams/Watson/Servideo types from that 3rd round on.

I think there is little to no chance of Holliday coming up this year no matter what he does at AA. First off, Ortiz is killing it in AAA is next man up on the infield. Second, Elias, is not going to start anyone's clock early. 3rd, the Orioles are going to face a 40-man problem this offseason with guys that need to be protected. Putting Holliday on before necessary does not make sense from an org standpoint. 4th, Holliday has done fantastic this year, but he does hit a lot of ground balls. He needs to work on driving the ball and getting more lift which should come with experience and as he grows into his man strength. He's going to be a beast, but I think the earliest we see him in the majors is mid-2024 similar to how they handled Westburg and Cowser so they gain that extra year of control.

Eh, that does sound like Brown. Brown has that young, homerish fan style that he's developed when he gets a little too over the top. The best part was when he tried to go out into the splash zone as a "man of the people" and looked so uncomfortable and nobody was really talking to him. He then came back and said something like "It's a lot of fun out there...... I think they took my wallet though!" A bit cringeworthy. Overall Brown can be solid but as he's gotten more comfortable in his role, he's starting to get a little too "in your face" homerish for me with some of these comments. I'm sure that goes over well with some and announcers are certainly an individual taste, but I guess watching the 1970 World Series broadcast and seeing and hearing Chuck Thompson made me yearn for the days of having a seasoned professional call the game and not try and be clever all the time. Maybe I'm just getting old! lol

Is that where that's from? I'm trying to forget Brown embarrassingly homerishly going "Ohtani who?" It does sound like something he would say though. I do think this guy sounds like a bit of douche saying that to Bautista, like he controls what the Orioles "social media" says about him. But yeah, that's like Holliday coming up and then start calling him "The Kid." Some nicknames are known to specific players and should not be reused.

Literally you just paste in the tweet url and wait for it show up before you submit.

Then he's back to struggling in July (.074/.167/.111/.278). The problem with Rhodes is he doesn't have a carrying tool. I mean, he's not really bad at anything, he just really isn't good at anything in particular either. Not enough juice in the bat to make up for his middling OBP skills. He's still fairly young so he could keep improving, but he's at best a 4th outfielder for me but he's behind McKenna and Haskins in that kind of player. That's why I'm not real thrilled with these 4-6th round college outfield selections. I'd prefer to go the high school route and get a kid from a cold school like McKenna and see if he can become something vs going after a college kid that may end up a decent minor league guy, but has very little ceiling. Just my preference vs being critical of the selection. But so far after the 2nd round, the Orioles have not hit on a college bat yet. Maybe a few of these guys are to save money for a Creed Willems type later in the draft? We'll see.

Hopefully this is a money saver here. Not thrilled with 5th round college outfielders with middling stats and plate discipline. I mean we are getting into the 5th round so can't get too upset, but rather have a pitcher or a CC or HS guy with some upside but those guys may be too expensive. I'm thinking this is a money saver pick.

This is definitely a different philosophy this year. I'm liking it. The pitching in the org is really poor and this draft should help that.

Gotta give Elias and Ciolek credit, they are finally going after some pitching early in the draft. Another guy who didn't have amazing numbers, but there is some upside!

Looks like a run of pitches now. Would love to get a high school kid with some upside in this round.

Go look up Wagner's numbers since May. He's been fine after a cold start.

Maybe this is their underslot guy? I don't see a ton to get excited over so maybe this is to save some dollars later. Then again I thought that about Ardoin last year and they inexplicitly gave him full bonus.

The Orioles clearly believe in their ability to develop pitching with the right attributes despite bad stats. Good stuff, bad ERA, but seems to be a guy who needs some professional development. Either way, I'm just happy to see them start taking some upside arms early in the draft.

There is a power tradeoff for sure, but don't discount Ortiz's bat too much. AAA stats Ortiz .338/.394/.558/.951, 26 BB, 52 Ks in 310 PAs Westburg .283/.366/.533/.899, 73 BB, 154 K in 714 PAs I think too many people are taking Ortiz's small sample size when he was up, in which he got very inconsistent playing time, and put too much emphasis on that. Ortiz finally got basic every day PAs from May 14th to 21st and after the first three games where he went hitless, he hit .455/.455/.546/1.000 over his next five games before being sent back to AAA. Since going back down to the minors, and despite Westburg and Cowser getting promotions, he's slashed .348/.434/.500/.934 with 7 double and 7-10 BB-K ratio in 11 games over 53 PAs. Ortiz is going to be an everyday SS for someone and would look darn good as the everyday SS or 2B right now, but because of Frazier and Mateo he's in AAA.

It's still early, but I like the plate discipline and he moves well enough to play 2B in my opinion. I just think Horvath has a similar type profile offensively and is built similarly. There may be a little more swing and miss with Horvath, but he runs well and may have a little bit more power than Wagner. He should be interesting to follow.

Well if you want more info:

I definitely get a Wagner vibe with the bat from the little bit of read about him so far.

Talk about all the signings and get all the info on the new draft picks at: https://forum.orioleshangout.com/forum/32-os-amateur-draft-and-international-signings/

That's funny, but in all reality, Ortiz is better at every position than Westburg. That's not a hit on Westburg, but more of how good Ortiz's glove is overall.

I've said it a few times in other threads but the one thing I was impressed with was the improvement in his defense this year. He still doesn't throw real well moving away from his target (across his body) but he's really cut down the bad errors and has been very consistent all year at every position really. I've really thought his ability to play 2B has been a highlight for him so far at the big league level.

Just on the first look, the raw stuff is there for sure. Definitely looks like a develop pick with the high ERA in college despite the stuff. I like it though. Nice upside.