MLB investigating South Florida "wellness clinics" in connection with PEDs

[weams]

I wasn't talking about Carillo.

You think Braun's camp leaked the positive test?

Somehow a lot of supposedly confidential information gets leaked to the press. If MLB isn't doing it intentionally then they need to reassess their security measures.

I agree with all of this.

I do believe that the press is way ahead of the curve on much of this.

I think the security measures are the key here. There are at least three subcontractors between the MLB and the Players on this.

[SeaBird]

I wasn't talking about Carillo.

You think Braun's camp leaked the positive test?

Somehow a lot of supposedly confidential information gets leaked to the press. If MLB isn't doing it intentionally then they need to reassess their security measures.

Sorry. I though we were discussing Carillo. But, no. I don't think Braun's people leaked his results. The CBA is confusing on to whom a positive test result is reported, however. In one instance it's reported by the IPA (Independent Program Administrator) to the player and the Player's Union. In another reference it's reported to the player and his team. A third reference cites the Office of Commissioner is also notified.

So, it could have been leaked by the IPA, by the union, the player himself (if he told anyone), afamily member if he confided, a member/FO of the player's team or the Commissioner's Office. There's a lot of potential leaks (no pun intended) out there. I think we can only rule out the actual testing lab as I don't think they know who the sample they are testing is from. They probably receive a vial with an ID number on it that only the IPA can identif through a cross reference. That way some lab tech is going home at night asnd saying, "hey, honey....today I tested Braun; and guess what? He's dirty!"

Fully agree that the security measures and chain of custody issues have to be re-examined.

Here's some words to live by. "It's only a secret until you tell someone".

[Can_of_corn]

Evidently MLB's fixation on Braun is warping their entire approach to PED's. (also look! Another leak from MLB)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/03/19/ryan-braun-remains-calm-amid-drug-firestorm/2001581/

In some cases, according to two officials who spoke to USA TODAY Sports but were unauthorized to speak publicly, some players will be granted immunity even if they admit guilt to the use of performance-enhancing drugs. They would have to fully disclose their arrangement with Tony Bosch, former director of the now-shuttered Biogenesis clinic, including any possible involvement by their agents or knowledge of other players who received performance-enhancing drugs from him.

What happened to "zero tolerance"?

Interesting piece from Calcaterra at Hardballtalk on the subject:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/20/in-focusing-on-braun-major-league-baseball-is-abandoning-the-principles-of-its-drug-testingenforcement-program/

[weams]

Braun and Arod are going down.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--alex-rodriguez--ryan-braun-main-targets-of-mlb-s-probe-of-biogenesis-clinc-s-connection-to-players-020538395.html

[Can_of_corn]

Braun and Arod are going down.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--alex-rodriguez--ryan-braun-main-targets-of-mlb-s-probe-of-biogenesis-clinc-s-connection-to-players-020538395.html

Hope the result is worth the cost.

If they give immunity to convince guys to turn on those two, their program will never recover.

[weams]

Major League Baseball officials will file a lawsuit Friday against several people connected to the South Florida anti-aging clinic that allegedly provided some of the game's biggest stars with performance-enhancing substances, the New York Times reported Thursday.

Alex Rodriguez, Ryan Braun, Melky Cabrera, Gio Gonzalez and Nelson Cruz are among the players who are alleged to have been involved with Biogenesis.

Such a suit could have two benefits. It would seek to recoup money, based on the premise that the individuals named have harmed the sport. And it could aid the ongoing investigation into the scandal. Lacking subpoena power, MLB has been limited in its attempt to gather information in its investigation, which has been ongoing since the Miami New Times first broke the story in January, saying it had documents that linked the players to Anthony Bosch and his clinic, and in some instances to specific PEDs. The newspaper recently declined to share the records with MLB.

According to The New York Times, if the lawsuit is allowed to proceed, it would allow baseball's investigators to subpoena records from the now-shuttered clinic and to compel depositions, and any evidence gathered could then be used to discipline the players involved. Without a positive drug test, documentary evidence or witness testimony would be needed for MLB to take disciplinary action.

Legal experts said baseball's strategy was innovative, if unproven.

"This is a fundamental shift in dealing with performance-enhancing drug issues," Gabe Feldman, director of the sports law program at Tulane University and a lawyer who has represented athletes in disputes with professional leagues, told the New York Times. "It's an attempt to attack the problem at its source, and that is something different from how the leagues have approached it until now. It's been difficult for the leagues to target the distributors because they have had no power over them."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130322&content_id=43123262&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

[SeaBird]

Major League Baseball officials will file a lawsuit Friday against several people connected to the South Florida anti-aging clinic that allegedly provided some of the game's biggest stars with performance-enhancing substances, the New York Times reported Thursday.

Alex Rodriguez, Ryan Braun, Melky Cabrera, Gio Gonzalez and Nelson Cruz are among the players who are alleged to have been involved with Biogenesis.

Such a suit could have two benefits. It would seek to recoup money, based on the premise that the individuals named have harmed the sport. And it could aid the ongoing investigation into the scandal. Lacking subpoena power, MLB has been limited in its attempt to gather information in its investigation, which has been ongoing since the Miami New Times first broke the story in January, saying it had documents that linked the players to Anthony Bosch and his clinic, and in some instances to specific PEDs. The newspaper recently declined to share the records with MLB.

According to The New York Times, if the lawsuit is allowed to proceed, it would allow baseball's investigators to subpoena records from the now-shuttered clinic and to compel depositions, and any evidence gathered could then be used to discipline the players involved. Without a positive drug test, documentary evidence or witness testimony would be needed for MLB to take disciplinary action.

Legal experts said baseball's strategy was innovative, if unproven.

"This is a fundamental shift in dealing with performance-enhancing drug issues," Gabe Feldman, director of the sports law program at Tulane University and a lawyer who has represented athletes in disputes with professional leagues, told the New York Times. "It's an attempt to attack the problem at its source, and that is something different from how the leagues have approached it until now. It's been difficult for the leagues to target the distributors because they have had no power over them."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130322&content_id=43123262&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Does anybody think that there are any records left inside the Biogenesis offices? I'd be willing to bet thaat Anthony Bosch had the place cleaned out as soon as the Miami New Times story hit the street. And the newspaper would just throw up the "Freedom of the Press" retort to any subpoena for it's copies of Biogenesis records.

Interesting article suggests that MLB should just go ahead and suspend Braun. The logic being that they've already filed the lawsuit against Biogenesis and by suspending Braun, and others they feel comfortable with, they put the players on the defense and get them into court under oath to deny their involvement. And it goes without saying that Bosch and other Biogenesis employees willl be on the witness list to provide testimoony about what their involvemment was.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/22/why-doesnt-major-league-baseball-just-suspend-ryan-braun-and-see-what-happens/related/

[Can_of_corn]

Not sure I follow. They aren't going to give immunity to anyone who failed a test. Why will the program never recover?

They might go that far. Of course they already raised the bar by suspending Cesar Carrillo for merely appearing in the documents. If they don't suspend all the minor leaguers mentioned in the documents then where is the zero tolerance?

http://tracking.si.com/2013/03/15/tigers-minor-leaguer-linked-to-biogenesis-suspended-100-games/

[bdlj0887]

I guess not. But you said if they gave players immunity to rat on ARod and Braun that the program would never recover? Just trying to figure out what you mean by that.

It undermines the point of the program, or what they say the point is. Do they want to eliminate banned substances? Or do they want to finally stick it to guys and save face. Do we only care if it's stars cheating?

I personally don't have any particular interest, but I feel like if they're serious about eliminating PEDs they need to go about it in a systematic sense, rather than targeting the big names.

[Can_of_corn]

My take is that they will get as many as they can get but nothing wrong with getting the big guys to make a point. The testing system is in place but everyone knows that it's far from 100% effective for nabbing the cheaters. Here's a case where you can nab some big names and maybe some little ones too. It doesn't change the testing program in place. You might not like the way they are getting Bruan and ARod but at least they are getting someone. It's not like they are innocent, IF they can nail them on GOOD evidence. I just don't get how this undermines the system. Are players more likely to get away with cheating? If they fail a test, they are still going to get suspended. This is more a case of circumstantial evidence and hearsay. Not sure how they make it stick but if they can, good for them. I don't see how it hurts the system in place though.

If anything, this will make players think twice about where and who they get their PED's from. Some will decide it's better not to even do it. Some will find more secure ways of doing it. But, if MLB gets some players to turn (I still doubt it) then it will make all of the cheaters a little more nervous about who might turn on them.

It is simple right now everyone is equal under the PED law. This will change that. It will no longer be about keeping the game clean it will be about choosing targets to go after while letting other folks off.

[Can_of_corn]

Not at all. It's still about keeping the game clean. This doesn't change anything. Just like using some low level mob guys to get the big ones. It might be a dirty business but it's better than doing nothing. They idea is to get some instead of none. In the grand scheme this will deter. Your being a little idealistic. Sure, some guilty guys get off, but they still aren't guys who were caught under the testing system and they wouldn't have been caught in this case either. Someone has to be the stool pigeon. That's all.

Sorry I disagree. MLB has no business picking and choosing who to punish for PED violations. Once you develop an institution of selective enforcement then the whole program loses all credibility.

[Can_of_corn]

I guess the U.S. Justice system has no credibility with you either? Credibilty with who? You?

Your "the program will never recover" was just over the top. Admit it.

The goals of baseball's PED program and the U.S. Justice system are not similar.

I still say that their system will be irrevocably damaged if they deviate from their stated guidelines to take punitive action against those that they believe have wronged them.

It will be obvious to the court of public opinion that the commissioner's office was willing to disregard their own guidelines to "get back" at someone who had the audacity to win an appeal.

[weams]

Some of the accused players were attempting to purchase the documents and MLB interceded and bought them instead. They want to get Braun and AROD.

[SeaBird]

Some of the accused players were attempting to purchase the documents and MLB interceded and bought them instead. They want to get Braun and AROD.

Actually, per the NY Times, MLB has already bought some documents and at least one player bought documents with the intention of destroying them. Other players have tried to buy documents.

Major League Baseball’s investigation of an anti-aging clinic linked to performance-enhancing drugs has taken a new turn, with the commissioner’s office paying a former employee of the facility for documents related to the case. At the same time, two people briefed on the matter said, at least one player linked to the clinic has purchased documents from a former clinic employee in order to destroy them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/sports/baseball/documents-at-anti-aging-clinic-up-for-sale-in-doping-case.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&

[Can_of_corn]

Actually, per the NY Times, MLB has already bought some documents and at least one player bought documents with the intention of destroying them. Other players have tried to buy documents.

Major League Baseball’s investigation of an anti-aging clinic linked to performance-enhancing drugs has taken a new turn, with the commissioner’s office paying a former employee of the facility for documents related to the case. At the same time, two people briefed on the matter said, at least one player linked to the clinic has purchased documents from a former clinic employee in order to destroy them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/sports/baseball/documents-at-anti-aging-clinic-up-for-sale-in-doping-case.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&

What are the odds that the "two people briefed" on the matter are connected with MLB? :scratchchinhmm:

Nice cover for MLB to go on a buying spree if they leak the story that the players involved were trying to do the same.