When Did They Become Hall Worthy?

[Can_of_corn]

http://www.hallofstats.com/articles/when-did-they-become-hall-worthy

Very interesting read. According to this site's "Hall Rating" Ruth was worthy of induction at the age of 25 and he isn't even the earliest player to pass the threshold.

[DrungoHazewood]

Interesting. I'd like to see how they come up with the Hall rating*. I'd also be interested in the list of quickest to X number who never made the Hall, or never made a certain milestone number.

* Clicked on the About link in the page. :slapshead: Seems to be a combination of rWAR and wins above average, I suppose to penalize those who stayed around a long time but weren't very good. Probably hurts Brooks who was great for maybe a dozen or so years, and then just kind of there as a defense-only guy for quite a while.

[calmunderfire]

I'm skeptical of this formula or whatever it is. It says Pujols was hall worthy at age 26. He had 1159 hits. 250 HR's. 45.9 WAR. That is simply not enough volume. Sure he was consistently great, but it wasn't sustained long enough. Obviously now after 13 years and closing in on 100 WAR it's a no brainer.

Also, I believe 10 years service time is the minimum to be eligible for the hall of fame.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm skeptical of this formula or whatever it is. It says Pujols was hall worthy at age 26. He had 1159 hits. 250 HR's. 45.9 WAR. That is simply not enough volume. Sure he was consistently great, but it wasn't sustained long enough. Obviously now after 13 years and closing in on 100 WAR it's a no brainer.

Also, I believe 10 years service time is the minimum to be eligible for the hall of fame.

Do you not understand the concept of the exercise?

[calmunderfire]

[/b]

Do you not understand the concept of the exercise?

I do. Even so, I've already just destroyed this Hall Rating thing. It said Pujols was hall of fame worthy at 26. His numbers clearly show he wasn't at that point.

[Can_of_corn]

I do. Even so, I've already just destroyed this Hall Rating thing. It said Pujols was hall of fame worthy at 26. His numbers clearly show he wasn't at that point.

Rick Ferrell accumulated 22.9 WAR, he is in the Hall.

George Kelly accumulated 24.3 WAR, he is in the Hall.

Phil Rizzuto accumulated 41.8 WAR, he is in the Hall.

Would you like for me to continue?

[calmunderfire]

Rick Ferrell accumulated 22.9 WAR, he is in the Hall.

George Kelly accumulated 24.3 WAR, he is in the Hall.

Phil Rizzuto accumulated 41.8 WAR, he is in the Hall.

Would you like for me to continue?

Those guys were voted in at a time when people thought Ty Cobb was better than Babe Ruth.

[Can_of_corn]

Those guys were voted in at a time when people thought Ty Cobb was better than Babe Ruth.

Jim Rice 47.2

Are you going to tell me you are splitting hairs and a 27 year old Pujols was worthy?

[weams]

Jim Rice 47.2

Are you going to tell me you are splitting hairs and a 27 year old Pujols was worthy?

Rice is an abomination.

[Can_of_corn]

Rice is an abomination.

True but I would rather have Pujols through 26 on my team then Rice for his whole career.

[calmunderfire]

Jim Rice 47.2

Are you going to tell me you are splitting hairs and a 27 year old Pujols was worthy?

He was dragged down by his dWAR. Voters back then didn't care about defense from a corner outfielder and DH. There will always be examples of players who are voted into the hall of fame that don't deserve to be there.

Bottom line is this. A sub 50 career WAR player does not deserve to be in the hall of fame.

[Can_of_corn]

He was dragged down by his dWAR. Voters back then didn't care about defense from a corner outfielder and DH. There will always be examples of players who are voted into the hall of fame that don't deserve to be there.

Bottom line is this. A sub 50 career WAR player does not deserve to be in the hall of fame.

Back then? Rice was voted in WAY BACK IN 2009!

What if Morris (43.8) gets in next year?

I am a small Hall guy. But, it is asinine to say the minimum requirement for enshrinement is a WAR level that many members do not meet.

[DrungoHazewood]

Rice is an abomination.

I wouldn't go that far. Rice isn't the least valuable player in the Hall. Ray Schalk and Bill Mazerozki and Tommy McCarthy are worse. Rollie Fingers not even close (you could just about add up Fingers rWAR to Adam Jones' to date rWAR and you get Jim Rice).

Bottom line is this. A sub 50 career WAR player does not deserve to be in the hall of fame.

So just to be clear, you'd throw out (among others): Goose Gossage, Dizzy Dean, Ralph Kiner, Earl Averill, Burleigh Grimes, Roy Campanella, Sam Thompson, Evers and Chance, King Kelly, Buck Ewing, and Larry Doby. Hoyt Wilhelm and Koufax just get in by a nose.

While I'd agree that there are many VC mistakes among sub-50 WAR players there are also worthy candidates who had high peaks and/or extenuating circumstances that kept them under that arbitrary limit. I think it's a mistake to tie induction to one number.

[weams]

I wouldn't go that far. Rice isn't the least valuable player in the Hall. Ray Schalk and Bill Mazerozki and Tommy McCarthy are worse. Rollie Fingers not even close (you could just about add up Fingers rWAR to Adam Jones' to date rWAR and you get Jim Rice).

So just to be clear, you'd throw out (among others): Goose Gossage, Dizzy Dean, Ralph Kiner, Earl Averill, Burleigh Grimes, Roy Campanella, Sam Thompson, Evers and Chance, King Kelly, Buck Ewing, and Larry Doby. Hoyt Wilhelm and Koufax just get in by a nose.

While I'd agree that there are many VC mistakes among sub-50 WAR players there are also worthy candidates who had high peaks and/or extenuating circumstances that kept them under that arbitrary limit. I think it's a mistake to tie induction to one number.

I never said Rice was an abomination because of his WAR.

[DrungoHazewood]

True but I would rather have Pujols through 26 on my team then Rice for his whole career.

I think you can overstate the "abominations" of Jim Rice. He had five 5+ win seasons, which is as many as Eddie Murray, more than Dawson or Dickey or Berra or Fisk or Hartnett or Keeler or Frisch or Killebrew. Murray and some of the others just had a lot more years as a pretty good player, and some of them stuck around long enough to have much better counting stats. Rice is no HOFer, but he's not a bad player, there are worse HOFers.