The Implosion of 2015

[DrungoHazewood]

According to Rick Dempsey and the MASN broadcast last night, for the season, the whole pitching staff stinks with 0-2 and I don't remember the numbers, but it was extremely telling story for sure.

If Dempsey was quoting stats I'd assume the reality was somewhere between "that's exactly it" and "that's exactly the opposite of reality" with equal probability all along that continuum.

[Redskins Rick]

If Dempsey was quoting stats I'd assume the reality was somewhere between "that's exactly it" and "that's exactly the opposite of reality" with equal probability all along that continuum.

It was pretty damming actually, number of home runs allowed and how they ranked according to the rest of the teams.

How many hits given up, etc.

[weams]

If Dempsey was quoting stats I'd assume the reality was somewhere between "that's exactly it" and "that's exactly the opposite of reality" with equal probability all along that continuum.

I like the food at his restaurant. Nice host.

[weams]

There was plenty of evidence and rumors of strife BEFORE DD was hired. The Angelos' have long seemed to favor a system that promotes going around bosses, having certain people who are rarely if ever held accountable, people that can't be removed, etc. All of those things make it impossible or nearly impossible to have a true organizational plan. We are approaching 20 years of data that strongly suggest that the identity of the GM is not the main problem of the O's organization. I think it is very short-sighted to lay the state of the organization solely at DD's feet when all of these things (or much worse) has happened repeatedly for over 15 years.

The organization is completely different now than it was ten years ago. And we all have to come to grips with that. Even about our friends who used to work there and tell us what the good old days were like. It ain't like that today. They don't know. Not one thing more than you do in Texas.

[Redskins Rick]

If Dempsey was quoting stats I'd assume the reality was somewhere between "that's exactly it" and "that's exactly the opposite of reality" with equal probability all along that continuum.

Found some stats on Oriole pitchers and 0-2 counts:

The Orioles have been unbelievably inept on 0-2 pitches this year. The Bird homer was the 99th hit this season on 0-2 counts given up by O’s pitchers. That is tops in the American League along with the Tigers and Twins – give or take one or two hits. The next highest number after that is in the 70s, with the league average at 61.

Of the 99 hits allowed on a 0-2 count by the Orioles this year, 17 have been for doubles, 2 for triples, and 8 for home runs. Opponents are batting .209 in these situations. Of course, an average of .209 is not considered good, but on 0-2 counts it is actually rather fabulous!

It is not as if an unusual number of terrible things have happened to Orioles pitchers after 0-2 counts when pitching around batters. Only 33 times over the entire season has a 0-2 count eventuated in a base on balls, whereas it has rather led to 453 strikeouts.

http://thebaltimorewire.com/2015/09/07/baltimore-orioles-bird-bomb-beats-the-birds/

[George]

Without an honest and accurate identification and assessment of problems, no solutions are possible. It's just the first step, but it's an important one. Duquette's statement made me feel positive about the O's future. Been looking for some excuse to remain positive.

[Ohfan67]

The organization is completely different now than it was ten years ago. And we all have to come to grips with that. Even about our friends who used to work there and tell us what the good old days were like. It ain't like that today. They don't know. Not one thing more than you do in Texas.

WTF? What does me living in Texas have to do with the Orioles!?

I am not talking about rumors, I'm talking about player development, clear organizational philosophy, etc. I am not saying that Angelos is the devil, but there is lots of evidence that he and his sons are pretty bad at building a good baseball organization. This and other threads are focused on DD; I was pointing out that many of these issues (eg., a focus on a few wins now instead of a longer term plan) are totally consistent with the entire tenure of Angelos' ownership.

[hoosiers]

Agree, but I would like to point out that this is really the Angelos MO ..... The Orioles have never really committed to building a quality minor league system.

I really dislike laying this at PA's feet. There was a period between 1998 and 2001 when the Os had something like 14 first round and supplemental first round picks and all we basically got out of it was trading Werth and BRob - plus Bedard as a sixth rounder. PA has invested plenty of $ in draft picks - the fact is the picks have largely stunk. The lack of productive draft picks lays at the feet of the scouting directors and the GMs who hiredthem.

Of course, when it comes to international talent acquisition, PA hires his type of guys and guys who preach baseball talent acquisition that is in line with what PA believes. PA, however, is no dummy. If a credible case can be made for spending $ appropriately internationally, my expectation is that PA would get on board. PA understands the value of Schoop and the value of EdRod and I expect his reaction is "let's get more of the same". Perhaps not, but if the tight-fisted, value oriented teams like the As, Twins and Rays can find so much $ to spend internationally, then it is a failure of some senior baseball officials in our organization to not convince the owner to spend appropriately here.

Our current GM had the resources in the organization and in draft picks to compete in the AL East the past few years AND have the team in better shape going forward than where we actually are today. The current predicament is not the owner's fault and .... posts claiming our owner has not put the $ into building a strong farm system are inaccurate IMO.

[weams]

WTF? What does me living in Texas have to do with the Orioles!?

I am not talking about rumors, I'm talking about player development, clear organizational philosophy, etc. I am not saying that Angelos is the devil, but there is lots of evidence that he and his sons are pretty bad at building a good baseball organization. This and other threads are focused on DD; I was pointing out that many of these issues (eg., a focus on a few wins now instead of a longer term plan) are totally consistent with the entire tenure of Angelos' ownership.

My mistake. I never intended your location to be an issue. Just that folks who used to be in the know about the Orioles and have moved on are no longer privy to the information that they still choose to write about. That was all. My mistake again please accept my apology for making it seem that I was insulting Texas in any way.

[weams]

WTF? What does me living in Texas have to do with the Orioles!?

I am not talking about rumors, I'm talking about player development, clear organizational philosophy, etc. I am not saying that Angelos is the devil, but there is lots of evidence that he and his sons are pretty bad at building a good baseball organization. This and other threads are focused on DD; I was pointing out that many of these issues (eg., a focus on a few wins now instead of a longer term plan) are totally consistent with the entire tenure of Angelos' ownership.

What I was saying was that you were as likely to know what things were like from your viewpoint as some folks who write about the past front office issues that actually had experience with the club or close observation. Things have changed.

[weams]

I am not talking about rumors, I'm talking about player development, clear organizational philosophy, etc. I am not saying that Angelos is the devil, but there is lots of evidence that he and his sons are pretty bad at building a good baseball organization. This and other threads are focused on DD; I was pointing out that many of these issues (eg., a focus on a few wins now instead of a longer term plan) are totally consistent with the entire tenure of Angelos' ownership.

I believe that both Andy MacPhail and Dan Duquette, up until he tried to go to Canada, had full operational control of the organization within a budgeted structure.

[weams]

There was plenty of evidence and rumors of strife BEFORE DD was hired. The Angelos' have long seemed to favor a system that promotes going around bosses, having certain people who are rarely if ever held accountable, people that can't be removed, etc. All of those things make it impossible or nearly impossible to have a true organizational plan. We are approaching 20 years of data that strongly suggest that the identity of the GM is not the main problem of the O's organization. I think it is very short-sighted to lay the state of the organization solely at DD's feet when all of these things (or much worse) has happened repeatedly for over 15 years.

I think if you look, all the folks who could not be removed, were.

[DrungoHazewood]

I like the food at his restaurant. Nice host.

Haven't been there. I've heard Dempsey tell some hilarious and informative stories. That's his wheelhouse. He should stay away from anything tending towards serious analysis, and he generally does.

[Going Underground]

I really dislike laying this at PA's feet. There was a period between 1998 and 2001 when the Os had something like 14 first round and supplemental first round picks and all we basically got out of it was trading Werth and BRob - plus Bedard as a sixth rounder. PA has invested plenty of $ in draft picks - the fact is the picks have largely stunk. The lack of productive draft picks lays at the feet of the scouting directors and the GMs who hiredthem.

Of course, when it comes to international talent acquisition, PA hires his type of guys and guys who preach baseball talent acquisition that is in line with what PA believes. PA, however, is no dummy. If a credible case can be made for spending $ appropriately internationally, my expectation is that PA would get on board. PA understands the value of Schoop and the value of EdRod and I expect his reaction is "let's get more of the same". Perhaps not, but if the tight-fisted, value oriented teams like the As, Twins and Rays can find so much $ to spend internationally, then it is a failure of some senior baseball officials in our organization to not convince the owner to spend appropriately here.

Our current GM had the resources in the organization and in draft picks to compete in the AL East the past few years AND have the team in better shape going forward than where we actually are today. The current predicament is not the owner's fault and .... posts claiming our owner has not put the $ into building a strong farm system are inaccurate IMO.

But back then some of it was Angelos. They lost the Rochester Red Wings because of a bad product. They took forever to find a real Spring Training home. The facilities were poor both for the major and minor leagues. They had to go to Ottawa and could have had a nice Triple A facility in Harrisburg but messed that up Thank God for Andy that they finally have a nice Spring Training facility.

[weams]

But back then some of it was Angelos. They lost the Rochester Red Wings because of a bad product. They took forever to find a real Spring Training home. The facilities were poor both for the major and minor leagues. They had to go to Ottawa and could have had a nice Triple A facility in Harrisburg but messed that up Thank God for Andy that they finally have a nice Spring Training facility.

Andy saved us in many ways.