The Implosion of 2015

[BradyBunch]

Arrieta/Rodriguez at least get an eyebrow raise, but I agree the issue seems to be more about not acquiring talent and trading away picks/talent. That said, part of development is getting production out of players other than the surefire studs.

Artists was a mental case, you can't fix that for a player. ERod to me was a dumb trade. His numbers were down in 2014 for us because of an injury (knee I think). He got fully healthy and on track after trade. Saw him as a replacement for Chen next year.

Wilson, wright, givens and Caleb are examples of orioles getting production out of development.

[BradyBunch]

Damn auto correct.

[BradyBunch]

I'm not surprised about the defense runs saved. From my eye, we haven't been nearly as good this year as getting to balls. JJ lost a ton of range over the last three months due to the back (I hope that is the cause). Schoop has been a step slower in the field. LF and RF defense have been ugly IMO. Catcher has been ugly when Wieters is back there.

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Not to forget Jones who has been beaten deep several times by playing in. As Ubaldo about that. He's been screwed so many times by the Defense and relieve pitchers.

[Stotle]

You are taking a very general statement and applying a specific meaning to it. It's what you want it to mean. You could even be right but no one has any idea what it means. At face value it means, "we had a bad season and everyone needs to do better in every facet of the organization". Pretty simple stuff.

I don't want it to mean anything. I'm taking it at face value. I don't think it's evidence he or the organization has failed in some grand fashion.

[BradyBunch]

I watch regularly, and I believe the defense is down some. The team hasn't been as good at converting DP's this year, and I don't think the merry-go-round in the corner OF spots has been helpful, despite the fact that we have a ton of OF assists. Both UZR and Rtot have Jonathan Schoop having a significant downturn.

Schoop had a knee injury and he tends to get screwed on shifts like that Arod hit last night.

[Stotle]

Duquette as had what, 4 drafts under his regime. First draft was Gausman, Kline, Marin, and Walker. 2nd draft was Harvey and was very HS heavy. I think you would admit that a good HS prospect typically takes at least 4 years to climb the ladder. 3rd draft we didn't have a 1st or 2nd round pick. Just how many picks from DD's draft should we have expected in the majors by now?

I guess we could run through the list of 2012-2014 draftees. Is that really what we have to do? If no one has graduated to the majors it would stand to reason the system would be in good shape having accumulated talent for four years without graduating that talent. Is that the case?

[BradyBunch]

I guess we could run through the list of 2012-2014 draftees. Is that really what we have to do? If no one has graduated to the majors it would stand to reason the system would be in good shape having accumulated talent for four years without graduating that talent. Is that the case?

Our two #1s are hurt pitchers. Bundy could have been up this year. 2016 is a big year for Harvey and Bundy.

[Stotle]

I responded to a post that stated most of the players that have contributed at the ML level were from prior regimes. That shouldn't surprise anyone. We have drafted 2 college players in the 1st round under Duquette. One this year and the other (Gausman) already in the majors. Walker and Mancini are in the upper minors. Many of the more intriguing arms (Harvey, Cosme, Scott, Hess, are in the lower minors.

I'm not claiming some great successes in the drafts under Duquette. I'm saying they've been okay and it's not unusual that they aren't many contributing in the majors, especially with a concentration on HS players in 2013's draft. The 2012 draft is kind of disappointing, particularly if Kline doesn't become a decent ML reliever and Walker doesn't become a ML regular.

The system would be in better shape with Hader, Brault, Tarpley, Davies, and ERod, and the 1st and 2nd round pick from 2014.

That's a fair take.

[spiritof66]

Schoop had a knee injury and he tends to get screwed on shifts like that Arod hit last night.

I think the overall defense this year is down a bit, although it certainly qualifies as among the least of our problems.

Davis is not a great RF. I think his moving back and forth between RF and 1B has hurt his defense at both positions. Cabrera was not a good SS. Some of our revolving cast of corner OFs have not been plus defenders, including (to my surprise) Parra.

Manny has continued to make spectacular plays, but his defense overall is not as good as it was earlier, though having him at 3B all season is of course a big improvement over last year.

[winkies]

I'm gonna go with Bud Norris' season was something that we were not expecting. It was a rough go of it for him this year. We lost too many games because of his struggles.

[MrOrange82]

Nope. Wrong.

Duquette improved drafting and development when he stepped in, and you know that. It was a lapse year, they gotta do better next year. That's what he's saying, that's all he's saying, and that's what any good GM is going to say in this situation. Whether or not your agenda lets you believe that, well that's on you.

I'm sure it's already been said ITT, or maybe the above was meant as sarcasm, but unflinchingly toeing that line, after everything we've seen, is borderline nutty at this point. Even if the organization has improved, and I don't think that's clear, it clearly hasn't improved enough. The MiL cupboard is practically bare.

[wildcard]

I watch regularly, and I believe the defense is down some. The team hasn't been as good at converting DP's this year, and I don't think the merry-go-round in the corner OF spots has been helpful, despite the fact that we have a ton of OF assists. Both UZR and Rtot have Jonathan Schoop having a significant downturn.

I think people forget that Manny only played 82 games in 2014. And none of the six guys that played there in his absence were very good.

Cruz played the most games in left field. The O's tried 6 other there in 2014.

I have been amazed many times this year by Manny, Adam, Schoop and Joseph. And Parra has a strong arm even if he doesn't know what a cut off man is.

[RayC]

What matters most is, you have to get/have disciplined batters at the plate who can produce with runners in scoring position; and pitchers who can complete get ahead in the count and put batters away, instead of going to 3-2 from an 0-2 start, then losing the batter with a walk or base hit.

We have been awful in these categories this year!

[Frobby]

What matters most is, you have to get/have disciplined batters at the plate who can produce with runners in scoring position; and pitchers who can complete get ahead in the count and put batters away, instead of going to 3-2 from an 0-2 start, then losing the batter with a walk or base hit.

We have been awful in these categories this year!

We have been very good with runners in scoring position. 4th in BA, 4th in OPS. We don't get enough runners into scoring position to knock in, is the problem.

[weams]

We have been very good with runners in scoring position. 4th in BA, 4th in OPS. We don't get enough runners into scoring position to knock in, is the problem.

He was right about our guys having no put away pitch. Of course with a put away pitch, you get a high pitch count and leave early.