Jones wants say in offseason, plans to meet with Angelos

[Nevermore]

:eektf: You think Angelos' MAIN goal is a winning team??? Did you really type that?

e:And by default DD DOESN'T want a winning team?

Angelos's main goal is to have people come to the stadium and root for the team he owns, the Orioles. After 14 years of unsuccessfully trying to get people to the stadium without having a winning team, he finally realized that winning is what puts people in the stands.

As for DD, I do believe that DD sincerely believes that his baseball-related decisions would build a winning team. I am just questioning some of his recent decisions. I do not know if Adam Jones is questioning any of DD's decisions or not. But I do believe that AJ is sincere and also wants a winning team.

[Nevermore]

Look at the final budgets of the last several years. I don't know where to find them and don't care to. I'll say this, graph them. It'll be a smooth slightly upward curve. THAT is the "speculation" eveyone is using. FACTS. The budget barely rising every year, like a COLA. If that doesn't convince you that it is a hard budget I don't know what else to say.

The budget has risen every year. That doesn't prove that it's a hard budget i.e. PA goes to DD and tells him, "you can only spend X amount."

[abbott]

Cool -- so the budget next season should be about $130 mil? Lots of room. :thumbsup1:

In the last 15 years, the payroll has been reduced 5 times from the preceding year.

2015's payroll is higher than 2014, but the team wasn't nearly as good. 2013's payroll was also higher, but the team wasn't as good as 2012. The payroll for 2007 was higher than 2012, but the '07 wasn't as good as '12 team.

No one has ever publicly disclosed what the budget for payroll means. Is it a function of revenue, profits, attendance? Is it arbitrary? Is there a formula?

No one knows. It's completely speculative by any fan or member of the media. It's a closely held business secret and if one with inside knowledge were to divulge it, I believe the Orioles would sue that person for breach of contract or fiduciary duty.

[DrungoHazewood]

The budget has risen every year. That doesn't prove that it's a hard budget i.e. PA goes to DD and tells him, "you can only spend X amount."

Explain the not-uncommon practice of minor trades that appear to only be for the purpose of freeing up a few $million? That has persisted across several/multiple GMs.

[Can_of_corn]

They have spent

2012 84M

2013 92M

2014 108M

2015 119M

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/baltimore-orioles/

I will go on record as saying I firmly believe those increases weren't arbitrary. They were increases in budget provided that were subsequently spent.

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I think that it will be difficult for them to meet or exceed this season's payroll given how they tend to operate in regards to free agents.

Unless of course Dan overpays for second tier talent.

[weams]

We can only hope. The MASN dispute concerns me greatly in that regard. The longer it drags on, the more likely PGA is to take a conservative approach on future payroll. Limiting future payroll commitments to limit liability if the case goes badly is risk mitigation 101 for a lawyer or program director.

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And it will occur.

[weams]

I think that it will be difficult for them to meet or exceed this season's payroll given how they tend to operate in regards to free agents.

Unless of course Dan overpays for second tier talent.

I don't think they will even try. And they will not trade Manny and Adam.

[weams]

Because a GM might decide that he doesn't need to spend the resources provided. He might decide that the players that he signs or retains are enough to win, whether or not it meets any allocated budget.

Yeah, but he doesn't. You don't spend your budget, you don't get a pat on the head, you don't get an increase. You know that.

[abbott]

Yeah, but he doesn't. You don't spend your budget, you don't get a pat on the head, you don't get an increase. You know that.

Under normal circumstances you are correct, especially as it applies to large corportions, institutions and government. But the Orioles are a small, closely held family business. No one knows Dan's instructions or contract. Maybe he makes a bonus based on a % of the budget not spent. Maybe he gets a bonus based on wins per payroll dollar. Maybe he is not given a payroll budget as much as an operating budget and if he doesn't spend money on major league contracts he can increase spending on coaching, scouting and player development.

Ownership might not care exactly how operating and payroll is allocated, so long as total expenditures stay within the budget provided.

No one knows the answers to anything financial related to the Orioles, and no one is supposed to know. The Orioles have beat the Maryland Stadium Authority on spending money for improvements, the have beat MLB on getting the Nationals RSN rights, they have beat the concessioners on payments, the beat the players in arbitration hearings. The Orioles are amazingly well run and successful as a business, and that appears to be the bottom line. The Orioles never lose when it comes to business.

[weams]

Under normal circumstances you are correct, especially as it applies to large corportions, institutions and government. But the Orioles are a small, closely held family business. No one knows Dan's instructions or contract.

No one knows the answers to anything financial related to the Orioles, and no one is supposed to know. The Orioles have beat the Maryland Stadium Authority on spending money for improvements, the have beat MLB on getting the Nationals RSN rights, they have beat the concessioners on payments, the beat the players in arbitration hearings. The Orioles are amazingly well run and successful as a business, and that appears to be the bottom line. The Orioles never lose when it comes to business.

Well there are quite a few partners. But yes. I agree. You will never know the inner workings. And we won't be spending 130 coming off this year. Ad Dan's budget has been considerably less. A very small percentage increase based on positive results and revenue.

As I always say around here. Feel free to get angry with all the billionaires. They are not like folks we know. There are 30 MLB teams. 20. In the world. And other sports are not like baseball.

[Larry18]

I don't think Dan has a budget in a normal business sense. I would imagine that he and the owners sit down and construct what they believe is a target but each transaction has to be approved by the ownership.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't think Dan has a budget in a normal business sense. I would imagine that he and the owners sit down and construct what they believe is a target but each transaction has to be approved by the ownership.

It can't work that way, not as slow as ownership moves.

He has to have the ability to sign folks like Reimold, Cabrera and Young without having to get approval.

Larger and long term deals would be a different matter.

[Larry18]

It can't work that way, not as slow as ownership moves.

He has to have the ability to sign folks like Reimold, Cabrera and Young without having to get approval.

Larger and long term deals would be a different matter.

I would imagine that those deals would be pre appoved in the budgeting process. If you can get Delmon for under $2.5M then do it. Listening to John Hart when he was on MLB Network, I got the impression that most teams don't give GM's carte blanche to sign million dollar contracts.

[weams]

Personal take based on observation or have you heard rumors? What do you think payroll will be in 2016? Thanks

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Just guesswork. As always. 105. Because MASN is unresolved.

[weams]

I don't think Dan has a budget in a normal business sense. I would imagine that he and the owners sit down and construct what they believe is a target but each transaction has to be approved by the ownership.

Two administrations ago that was the way. Not any longer.