Roch: Matusz Traded (along with draft pick)

[LC_O's_87]

No I didn't imply that.

I stated that if you are not going to use the money then you might as well trade the slots.

And I also stated that I don't think Lee is a difference maker which was in reaction to other folks talking up Lee.

If you can give me some current examples of guys in the majors that have success with with a K rate that hovers around 3 I would love to see them.

You obviously don't follow Lee you just look at his stat page and it tells you all you need to know. fair enough.

So here's the question for you: what's the difference between taking a flyer on a 22 year Old lefty and spending on a 16 year old kid from Venezuela? Is the latter inherently more valuable for some reason?

[Can_of_corn]

You obviously don't follow Lee you just look at his stat page and it tells you all you need to know. fair enough.

So here's the question for you: what's the difference between taking a flyer on a 22 year Old lefty and spending on a 16 year old kid from Venezuela? Is the latter inherently more valuable for some reason?

Did you not see where I stated, more than once, that I don't really have an issue with the trading of the international slots?

Did you also not see where I stated that the way the system is one slot /=/ one player?

Now, I would like to see that list of MLB pitchers that have success with a K rate of 3.

[LC_O's_87]

Did you not see where I stated, more than once, that I don't really have an issue with the trading of the international slots?

Did you also not see where I stated that the way the system is one slot /=/ one player?

Now, I would like to see that list of MLB pitchers that have success with a K rate of 3.

3.3 K/9 through May 24? or through the whole season? Or are we projecting a whole career here?

[Can_of_corn]

3.3 K/9 through May 24? or through the whole season? Or are we projecting a whole career here?

Whichever, Lee is at 51 IP so we can put the cutoff at 50 to give you a fair comparison.

For what it is worth I think his career average of 6.5 is pretty limiting as well.

MLB players do too much damage with balls they put into play to allow guys with low K rates to thrive.

[24fps]

I've not seen any evidence that he values them at all in his current role.

He probably does assign them some value, but you can't really see that by his actions.

I'm not 100% happy with giving up the 76th overall pick to get rid of Matusz and his salary either. Getting two MiL arms back that have some upside makes this a balanced deal IMO. Let's not get too distraught over the 76th pick, it's not like it's anything other than a very long shot to begin with.

Many fans, myself included, value the product of his actions. In his current role. Even if his system of valuation isn't always consistent with OH conventional wisdom.

[Babypowder]

Did you not see where I stated, more than once, that I don't really have an issue with the trading of the international slots?

Did you also not see where I stated that the way the system is one slot /=/ one player?

Now, I would like to see that list of MLB pitchers that have success with a K rate of 3.

I have that for you. Since 2000:

Chien-Ming Wang was successful in 2006 with a 3.14.

Carlos Silva in 2004 with a 3.37.

Carlos Silva in 2005 with a 3.39.

Aaron Cook in 2006 with a 3.89.

Aaron Cook in 2008 with a 4.09.

That's all I got, and Cook is stretching.

[baltfan]

People are way to quick to assume that this is all about the money. It seems pretty clear that the Orioles have a plan here. They think that big international spending is generally a waste and prefer to trade their international bonus money for guys that they like in other systems. They also appear to prefer the known of another teams system vs. the unknown of later round draft picks. If other teams were doing this, they would be called innovative.

Also notice that the Orioles like to trade with teams with deep systems. The Astros, Dodgers last year as well as the Red Sox (for Gunkel). This year with the Braves. Even the Reds are in the top 10 in some rankings.

The Orioles believe that they have found some market inefficiencies and are trying to exploit them. They started with the Rule 5 draft and now many more teams seem to be emulating them.

They should be praised not demonized.

[Babypowder]

I'm not 100% happy with giving up the 76th overall pick to get rid of Matusz and his salary either. Getting two MiL arms back that have some upside makes this a balanced deal IMO. Let's not get too distraught over the 76th pick, it's not like it's anything other than a very long shot to begin with.

Many fans, myself included, value the product of his actions. In his current role. Even if his system of valuation isn't always consistent with OH conventional wisdom.

The guys they got back are nothing more than organizational guys. They most likely won't even be ranked in this weak system.

[Can_of_corn]

I have that for you. Since 2000:

Chien-Ming Wang was successful in 2006 with a 3.14.

Carlos Silva in 2004 with a 3.37.

Carlos Silva in 2005 with a 3.39.

Aaron Cook in 2006 with a 3.89.

Aaron Cook in 2008 with a 4.09.

That's all I got, and Cook is stretching.

Thanks.

So no names since the strike zone started expanding.

[Babypowder]

Thanks.

So no names since the strike zone started expanding.

And also no one with any kind of longevity. You have a few names who got by for a season or two with smoke and mirrors. No one can succeed in this league long term without missing some bats.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm not 100% happy with giving up the 76th overall pick to get rid of Matusz and his salary either. Getting two MiL arms back that have some upside makes this a balanced deal IMO. Let's not get too distraught over the 76th pick, it's not like it's anything other than a very long shot to begin with.

Many fans, myself included, value the product of his actions. In his current role. Even if his system of valuation isn't always consistent with OH conventional wisdom.

The pick in a vacuum isn't the issue, it is the continuation of a worrying trend.

[SpinJr]

I would imagine that our scouts thought well of the guy. I'm sorry, but I don't hold the Braves in very high regard right now. I get it. You don't like trading draft picks. Fact is we got $3.9 million plus two guys who are progressing pretty well for the 76th pick. You obviously see that as a disaster. As of now, I can't agree.

well stated.

[24fps]

The pick in a vacuum isn't the issue, it is the continuation of a worrying trend.

For many people the deal as it was constructed is the issue and the existence of any trend is open to interpretation. Personally I think that Duquette simply approaches the task of building and maintaining an organization in a different way than most people here assume is the correct way (as if there was any one correct way). I also suspect that his primary focus is on this season and probably the next two. We each have our own opinion as to when the price becomes too high in that pursuit, but I think we've got a long, long way to go before we need to worry.

[SteveA]

Has Lee actually accomplished something?

I mean don't get me wrong, if you won't use the international money than you should get what you can for it, but I wouldn't say Lee is a proven difference maker.

He's accomplished much more as a professional so far that. Draft pick #76 whose loss you are bemoaning.

Dismissing the acquisition of a minor league player who may help us in the future, while crying about the loss of a draft pick that could turn into a minor league player who may help us in the future, seems logically inconsistent to me.

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[Can_of_corn]

He's accomplished much more as a professional so far that. Draft pick #76 whose loss you are bemoaning.

Dismissing the acquisition of a minor league player who may help us in the future, while crying about the loss of a draft pick that could turn into a minor league player who may help us in the future, seems logically inconsistent to me.

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I didn't dismiss. I stated at the time that better to get something than just not use the slots.

I am dismissive of his chances of providing a positive impact on the ML team, which is something different. He's a good story, I just think his success is very likely to translate to the majors.