Manfred: If MiLB Players Get Raise, Teams will Be Folded

[weams]

How about artist, musician, and novelist. Even if there are more jobs in these professions, there are more potential workers. I doubt the success rate is much better than minor league baseball player. Either way, you are talking very long odds of making it big, and no sure thing to end up gainfully employed based on your skill set. But people do give it a shot for a time while they are young (and there are industries built on exploiting them while they are doing so).

I disagree. I think artist, musician and novelist are all much easier to find employment in. And none of them pay a wage either.

[DrungoHazewood]

I disagree. I think artist, musician and novelist are all much easier to find employment in. And none of them pay a wage either.

One difference is that the artist or actor or novelist usually writes that on the 1040 form while waiting tables at the Cheesecake Factory for $8 an hour. Do minor leaguers have side jobs? With their schedule I wouldn't think so.

DC United had a goalie named Troy Perkins, who was part of this "Project 40" program. Salary was maybe $20k a year. When he was the #2 goalie he worked at Dicks Sporting Goods before/after practice. When they promoted him to starter they gave him a raise so he could afford to quit Dicks. MLS isn't a top-tier league, but this the same period where David Beckham was pulling in $5M plus more than that in endorsements from the LA Galaxy.

[BradyBunch]

One difference is that the artist or actor or novelist usually writes that on the 1040 form while waiting tables at the Cheesecake Factory for $8 an hour. Do minor leaguers have side jobs? With their schedule I wouldn't think so.

DC United had a goalie named Troy Perkins, who was part of this "Project 40" program. Salary was maybe $20k a year. When he was the #2 goalie he worked at Dicks Sporting Goods before/after practice. When they promoted him to starter they gave him a raise so he could afford to quit Dicks. MLS isn't a top-tier league, but this the same period where David Beckham was pulling in $5M plus more than that in endorsements from the LA Galaxy.

An Artist, Novelist, or Actor is working a minimum wage job. So they get minimum wage.

An Athlete is paid salary. If you are salary, hours don't count. The pay is crap at first but the goal is promotion to get the higher wages.

Troy Perkins is not a good example. Perkins went undrafted in the MLS draft, meaning he missed out on better guaranteed money. Perkins wasn't part of the "Project 40" program as he went to College (South Florida/Evansville). He was signed on a Developmental Contract which is league minimum salary.

David Beckham made $6.5m in salary per year while with the Galaxy. It tends to be that way when you are the most popular player in the world at that time.

[DrungoHazewood]

An Artist, Novelist, or Actor is working a minimum wage job. So they get minimum wage.

An Athlete is paid salary. If you are salary, hours don't count. The pay is crap at first but the goal is promotion to get the higher wages.

Troy Perkins is not a good example. Perkins went undrafted in the MLS draft, meaning he missed out on better guaranteed money. Perkins wasn't part of the "Project 40" program as he went to College (South Florida/Evansville). He was signed on a Developmental Contract which is league minimum salary.

David Beckham made $6.5m in salary per year while with the Galaxy. It tends to be that way when you are the most popular player in the world at that time.

Perkins is a perfectly good example of a professional athlete who played alongside others in the same league who made roughly 500 times what he did and had to work a 2nd job to pay the rent.

[BradyBunch]

Perkins is a perfectly good example of a professional athlete who played alongside others in the same league who made roughly 500 times what he did and had to work a 2nd job to pay the rent.

No, it's not. David Beckham came to the MLS in 2007 and MLS created the DP rule to get around the MLS salary cap. A hard cap at that and it increase on average 2-5% a year (in 2007 it was $2.1m). As of this year here are some rules because of the DP rule.. no player can have more then $436,250 counted towards salary cap, so it limits players pay to $436,250 (unless they become DPs). First 20 of 28 players count against the salary cap. 21-28 are off budget but pay is capped between $50,000 and $60,000 and these players can't be above the age of 24, basically this your developmental contracts and Generation Adidas players.

As of right now, the lowest to the maximium pay in the MLS, is about 100x.. but that's new guy out of college who signed a dc contract vs a Steven Gerrard type player. A college player who brings absolutely ZERO revenue streams to Club or MLS vs Gerard who brings in revenue via jerseys being sold to more fans at games.

In 2003 Perkins signed a developmental contract the highest paid player was Freddy Adu at $500,000.

Perkins is a perfectly good example of a professional athlete who played alongside others in the same league who made roughly 500 times what he did and had to work a 2nd job to pay the rent.

No, it's not. David Beckham came to the MLS in 2007 and MLS created the DP rule to get around the MLS salary cap. A hard cap at that and it increase on average 2-5% a year (in 2007 it was $2.1m). As of this year here are some rules because of the DP rule.. no player can have more then $436,250 counted towards salary cap, so it limits players pay to $436,250 (unless they become DPs). First 20 of 28 players count against the salary cap. 21-28 are off budget but pay is capped between $50,000 and $60,000 and these players can't be above the age of 24, basically this your developmental contracts and Generation Adidas players. As of right now, the lowest to the maximium pay in the MLS, 100x.. but that's new guy out of college who signed a dc contract vs a Steven Gerrard type player. In 2003 Perkins signed a developmental contract the highest paid player was Freddy Adu at $500,000. http://www.si.com/vault/2004/03/29/366282/ready-for-freddy-at-14-freddy-adu-is-already-the-highest-paid-and-most-celebrated-player-in-mls-now-its-time-for-him-to-play-his-first-game'>Adu was highest paid player at one point.

[DrungoHazewood]

No, it's not. David Beckham came to the MLS in 2007 and MLS created the DP rule to get around the MLS salary cap. A hard cap at that and it increase on average 2-5% a year (in 2007 it was $2.1m). As of this year here are some rules because of the DP rule.. no player can have more then $436,250 counted towards salary cap, so it limits players pay to $436,250 (unless they become DPs). First 20 of 28 players count against the salary cap. 21-28 are off budget but pay is capped between $50,000 and $60,000 and these players can't be above the age of 24, basically this your developmental contracts and Generation Adidas players.

As of right now, the lowest to the maximium pay in the MLS, is about 100x.. but that's new guy out of college who signed a dc contract vs a Steven Gerrard type player. A college player who brings absolutely ZERO revenue streams to Club or MLS vs Gerard who brings in revenue via jerseys being sold to more fans at games.

In 2003 Perkins signed a developmental contract the highest paid player was Freddy Adu at $500,000. Adu was highest paid player at one point.

I understand that you believe this invalidates my point, which had little or nothing to do with the exact minutia of Perkins' contract.

[CheeryO]

It's just basic economics, you don't need to trust Manfred to understand that fringe baseball players don't earn more because their skills aren't as valuable.

You know, I love dinking around in Excel looking at baseball stats, but I wouldn't expect the the Orioles to hire me to their data team to run regression models on BABIP, and then demand they pay me a living wage. I know this because they advertise those positions on Fangraphs and they're unpaid. They have tons of people apply anyway because the supply is so low and it's basically a dream job for a baseball fan/stat expert. It's not different when you have a bunch of barely talented players that basically volunteer to play baseball for a living.

We're not talking about someone who dinks around with baseball stats anymore than we're talking about someone who plays beer league softball. We're talking about people already employed to play baseball. You are not employed to play baseball and you never will be.

Major League players used to not make that much, and then union got stronger and acted. So, it's not about "skills" per se. It's about bargaining with employers as a group first, whether you're at the highest level or the lowest; then after the union establishes the floor players bargain as individuals to find their salary ceilings. But the salary ceiling for any individual player today would be nowhere near as high as it is had the union not set the groundwork for the salary floors first.

[weams]

http://www.witf.org/news/2016/07/minor-league-baseball-players-may-swing-and-miss-as-federal-overtime-rules-change.php

[weams]

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/baseball-minor-leaguers-dealt-significant-setback-in-lawsuit-against-mlb/?utm_source=vicesportstwitter

[SilentJames]

There is no reason these guys shouldn't make a decent living wage.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DrungoHazewood]

There is no reason these guys shouldn't make a decent living wage.

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Maybe no reason that you agree with, but there are reasons. Such as the fact that there is never even a remotely a shortage of people willing to make $1000 a month to play ball. There's a line around the block. And since that's arguably less than minimum wage essentially every single one of them could be making more money in a different field, assuming that all of them qualify for a job stocking shelves at Wal Mart. Some of the non-US citizens might look at $1000 a month as more than what they might get in their economically depressed home countries.

In any case, they've chosen to do this at this salary despite other options. Is it really our place to stop them, or force their employers to increase their wages despite the demand for these low-wage jobs?

My only real counter-argument is that it looks bad for MLB for Ryan Howard's contract to be the rough equivalent of what all minor leaguers will make combined this year.

[Can_of_corn]

Maybe no reason that you agree with, but there are reasons. Such as the fact that there is never even a remotely a shortage of people willing to make $1000 a month to play ball. There's a line around the block. And since that's arguably less than minimum wage essentially every single one of them could be making more money in a different field, assuming that all of them qualify for a job stocking shelves at Wal Mart. Some of the non-US citizens might look at $1000 a month as more than what they might get in their economically depressed home countries.

In any case, they've chosen to do this at this salary despite other options. Is it really our place to stop them, or force their employers to increase their wages despite the demand for these low-wage jobs?

My only real counter-argument is that it looks bad for MLB for Ryan Howard's contract to be the rough equivalent of what all minor leaguers will make combined this year.

This really isn't accurate.

First off Walmart is paying more than the Federal Minimum wage and more importantly a lot of jobs of that ilk are not offering anything close to 40 hours a week. If you can't get more than 20 hours/WK you are making less than that ballplayer making 1K/Month.

[DrungoHazewood]

This really isn't accurate.

First off Walmart is paying more than the Federal Minimum wage and more importantly a lot of jobs of that ilk are not offering anything close to 40 hours a week. If you can't get more than 20 hours/WK you are making less than that ballplayer making 1K/Month.

That's probably true, it's been a long time since I was looking for minimum wage jobs. But I think it's reasonable to assume that most of the minor leaguers from first world countries could make more, and in some cases a lot more, in other fields. But they choose to play ball.

[Can_of_corn]

That's probably true, it's been a long time since I was looking for minimum wage jobs. But I think it's reasonable to assume that most of the minor leaguers from first world countries could make more, and in some cases a lot more, in other fields. But they choose to play ball.

It is most certainly true, a byproduct of the recovery from the last downturn and the ACA. Cheaper to hire two folks at 20 hours than pay benefits to one making 40.

[atomic]

Maybe no reason that you agree with, but there are reasons. Such as the fact that there is never even a remotely a shortage of people willing to make $1000 a month to play ball. There's a line around the block. And since that's arguably less than minimum wage essentially every single one of them could be making more money in a different field, assuming that all of them qualify for a job stocking shelves at Wal Mart. Some of the non-US citizens might look at $1000 a month as more than what they might get in their economically depressed home countries.

In any case, they've chosen to do this at this salary despite other options. Is it really our place to stop them, or force their employers to increase their wages despite the demand for these low-wage jobs?

My only real counter-argument is that it looks bad for MLB for Ryan Howard's contract to be the rough equivalent of what all minor leaguers will make combined this year.

Well I think they are taking the low salary with hopes to get a major league job one day that pays big bucks. So when they work for nothing for 4 years and then end up with nothing to show for it. I would be more inclined to agree with you if baseball teams didn't make so much money and got public tax dollars to support them.