How Come The Brewers Can Make An Offer For Darvish And Not The Orioles?

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Ive have never been in favor of trading, from day 1. Thats my fandom, pay them, get acquire some more pieces and lets win this damn thing.

Would we have traded Cal Jr??????

If they get traded for meaning pieces, like Bedard, then I will be okay with that, but, I am never been in favor, just for the sake, we have to get something back.

Well if you aren't going to give players long term deals (in particular pitchers) then you have to make trades. There's not other option (whether you're in favor of it or not). 

And for teams not named the Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers, team management is shifting away from signing big free agents to addressing your needs / improving via trade. If the Orioles aren't willing to swim in the deep end with the big boys then they absolutely have to improve via trades. There's no other option. 

And to your point, if Cal Jr's contract was up and it was widely known that he wasn't going to resign I most certainly would have fielded offers for him. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

Well if you aren't going to give players long term deals (in particular pitchers) then you have to make trades. There's not other option (whether you're in favor of it or not). 

And for teams not named the Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers, team management is shifting away from signing big free agents to addressing your needs / improving via trade. If the Orioles aren't willing to swim in the deep end with the big boys then they absolutely have to improve via trades. There's no other option. 

And to your point, if Cal Jr's contract was up and it was widely known that he wasn't going to resign I most certainly would have fielded offers for him. 

We are watching the other option.

[foxfield]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

We are watching the other option.

This is the correct answer and it is correct for some reasons we do not spend enough time on.  I personally think DD is busting his ass to make the '18 Orioles playoff contenders.  I also personally believe he does not have complete control of the team where making trades and signings are concerned.

The post above this by wildbillhiccup alludes to two ways....either spend money or trade...there is no other option.

We cant spend money as the reality is we would have to wildly overpay to get anyone.  I can just imagine all the conversations we must be having with Agents who are nervous....

 

Agent:  My guy wants 4 years.  

DD: Well we offer three.  

Agent:  Who is going to be here running things after this year?  

DD: Hold on, I need to get this call from my agent. Here's Buck  

Buck:  We all have to plan as if we are blessed to have the opportunity to be here.  I'm gonna be here till they don't want me.  Hold on, my agent's on the phone talk to Brady.  

Brady:  Im the best thing that ever happened to Baltimore.  I'll tell the old man you have to have 4 years.  We will get back to you.

Agent:  Nevermind!

 

This IS the other option.

[tntoriole]

18 hours ago, foxfield said:

This is the correct answer and it is correct for some reasons we do not spend enough time on.  I personally think DD is busting his ass to make the '18 Orioles playoff contenders.  I also personally believe he does not have complete control of the team where making trades and signings are concerned.

The post above this by wildbillhiccup alludes to two ways....either spend money or trade...there is no other option.

We cant spend money as the reality is we would have to wildly overpay to get anyone.  I can just imagine all the conversations we must be having with Agents who are nervous....

 

Agent:  My guy wants 4 years.  

DD: Well we offer three.  

Agent:  Who is going to be here running things after this year?  

DD: Hold on, I need to get this call from my agent. Here's Buck  

Buck:  We all have to plan as if we are blessed to have the opportunity to be here.  I'm gonna be here till they don't want me.  Hold on, my agent's on the phone talk to Brady.  

Brady:  Im the best thing that ever happened to Baltimore.  I'll tell the old man you have to have 4 years.  We will get back to you.

Agent:  Nevermind!

 

This IS the other option.

This may be the case.   However, sometimes the responsibility also does lie with  choices made by the GM.   Peter Angelos did not require that Dan Duquette cut Miguel Gonzalez for nothing which impacted our chances in 2016, 2017 and now.  Peter Angelos did not insist that Dan Duquette trade Zach Davies for Gerardo Parra.  Peter Angelos did not require that Dan cut loose Parker Bridwell for no return at all.   Peter Angelos did not insist on Dan Duquette re-signing Mark Trumbo.  Peter Angelos likely had to be lobbied heavily by Dan Duquette to even agree to sign Ubaldo Jimenez to a 4 year contract and Yovani Gallardo to a deal at all.   Do you think Dan Duquette recommended that we should even try to re-sign Andrew Miller or Nelson Cruz or Nick Markakis and Angelos said no to all these....or did Dan just decide, well.....no,  I as the GM am not going in those specific directions because I don't think those choices are the right call.     Sure, there are plenty of instances where Angelos has likely directly interfered, Chris Davis, international signings, trading Zach at the deadline, etc.  but part of an effective GMs job is to make the best choices when you do get the opportunity but also to strongly advocate to your owner about the choices that you think are essential.   Dan has certainly made a number of good choices in his tenure, but he also  has made some bad choices that have nothing to do with the owner.  And as to whether he has ever been a strong advocate for the choices he has felt strongly about, well...I can't say because I am not privy to their private conversations.    I would suspect Buck and Brady have been and are stronger advocates for making their cases to Peter Angelos just due to their respective personalities, but again that is just idle speculation.     

 

[weams]

3 hours ago, foxfield said:

This is the correct answer and it is correct for some reasons we do not spend enough time on.  I personally think DD is busting his ass to make the '18 Orioles playoff contenders.  I also personally believe he does not have complete control of the team where making trades and signings are concerned.

The post above this by wildbillhiccup alludes to two ways....either spend money or trade...there is no other option.

We cant spend money as the reality is we would have to wildly overpay to get anyone.  I can just imagine all the conversations we must be having with Agents who are nervous....

 

Agent:  My guy wants 4 years.  

DD: Well we offer three.  

Agent:  Who is going to be here running things after this year?  

DD: Hold on, I need to get this call from my agent. Here's Buck  

Buck:  We all have to plan as if we are blessed to have the opportunity to be here.  I'm gonna be here till they don't want me.  Hold on, my agent's on the phone talk to Brady.  

Brady:  Im the best thing that ever happened to Baltimore.  I'll tell the old man you have to have 4 years.  We will get back to you.

Agent:  Nevermind!

 

This IS the other option.

You do realize that it is nothing like this. Correct?

[foxfield]

3 hours ago, weams said:

You do realize that it is nothing like this. Correct?

I realize that the above is a grossly hyperbolic but the reality is that it is a dysfunctional set up.

[foxfield]

3 hours ago, tntoriole said:

This may be the case.   However, sometimes the responsibility also does lie with  choices made by the GM.   Peter Angelos did not require that Dan Duquette cut Miguel Gonzalez for nothing which impacted our chances in 2016, 2017 and now.  Peter Angelos did not insist that Dan Duquette not trade Zach Davies for Gerardo Parra.  Peter Angelos did not require that Dan cut loose Parker Bridwell for no return at all.   Peter Angelos likely did not insist on Dan Duquette re-signing Mark Trumbo.  Peter Angelos likely had to be lobbied heavily by Dan Duquette to even agree to sign Ubaldo Jimenez to a 4 year contract and Yovani Gallardo to a deal at all.   Do you think Dan Duquette recommended that we really should try to re-sign Andrew Miller or Nelson Cruz or Nick Markakis and Angelos said no to all these....or did Dan just decide, well.....no,  I as the GM am not going in those specific directions because I don't think those choices are the right call.     Sure, there are plenty of instances where Angelos has likely directly interfered, Chris Davis, international signings, trading Zach at the deadline, etc.  but part of an effective GMs job is to make the best choices when you do get the opportunity but also to strongly advocate to your owner about the choices that you think are essential.   Dan has certainly made a number of good choices in his tenure, but he also  has made some bad choices that have nothing to do with the owner.  And as to whether he has ever been a strong advocate for the choices he has felt strongly about, well...I can't say because I am not privy to their private conversations.    I would suspect Buck and Brady have been and are stronger advocates for making their cases to Peter Angelos just due to their respective personalities, but again that is just idle speculation.     

 

I agree with every word of this...I didn't mean my post to come off as making excuses for DD.  It is not.  I think he has made mistakes and I think you point many out above.  I think we have had several decent to good GM's all of whom have had to work with limitations..Would we have made some of the trades above if we could be in the international market?  Would Gonzo have been released if the budget was flexible?  Some of the calls above clearly seem to fall on him and again, I agree with you.  At the end of the day we are not privy to these conversations, but we DO know that unlike most teams, our structure is different and it is different in a way that makes us fortunate that we have someone like Buck and DD here at all...

[weams]

9 hours ago, foxfield said:

I agree with every word of this...I didn't mean my post to come off as making excuses for DD.  It is not.  I think he has made mistakes and I think you point many out above.  I think we have had several decent to good GM's all of whom have had to work with limitations..Would we have made some of the trades above if we could be in the international market?  Would Gonzo have been released if the budget was flexible?  Some of the calls above clearly seem to fall on him and again, I agree with you.  At the end of the day we are not privy to these conversations, but we DO know that unlike most teams, our structure is different and it is different in a way that makes us fortunate that we have someone like Buck and DD here at all...

The constraints of the ownership and local have required a gamblers fortune to give a result back better than had been evident in Baltimore for a decade and a half.  Especially with the new southern neighbor. 

Dan just came up snake eyes when it was very inopportune. 

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, weams said:

The constraints of the ownership and local have required a gamblers fortune to give a result back better than had been evident in Baltimore for a decade and a half.  Especially with the new southern neighbor. 

Dan just came up snake eyes when it was very inopportune. 

Dan has his own philosophy too which contributed to his being canned in Boston..one of.which is the old school approach that minor league assets are to be used primarily to trade away if there is the remotest possibility that a mediocre veteran can add a win during a particular season.  Dan had that as a style way before he came to work for Peter Angelos.  So when you send off a Zach Davies for Gerardo Parra, that is not inopportune, that is just Dan being Dan, not Peter Angelos.    

To have not made any substantive effort to get this core group over the top after winning the division in 2014 was also Dan being Dan...believing that if you win, you can just stand pat.   It took Theo’s additions and work to get the Boston core over the top.  Plus the Toronto situation that same winter did not likely help much. 

[Redskins Rick]

2 hours ago, weams said:

The constraints of the ownership and local have required a gamblers fortune to give a result back better than had been evident in Baltimore for a decade and a half.  Especially with the new southern neighbor. 

Dan just came up snake eyes when it was very inopportune. 

It also easy for others to throw stones at DD for some of the decisions, like Miggy, we all love Miggy, but it looked like he was running out of gas and the downleg side of his career. Its great he was able to regroup and keep pitching. I can see the posts now, if they had kept him here and he didnt regroup well, geeze, they like to keep the vets.

[Pheasants]

4 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

It also easy for others to throw stones at DD for some of the decisions, like Miggy, we all love Miggy, but it looked like he was running out of gas and the downleg side of his career. Its great he was able to regroup and keep pitching. I can see the posts now, if they had kept him here and he didnt regroup well, geeze, they like to keep the vets.

And we sure have enough OH members who want to repeat the keep Trumbo in case Mancini isn't ready by getting a veteran outfielder.

[Redskins Rick]

20 minutes ago, Pheasants said:

And we sure have enough OH members who want to repeat the keep Trumbo in case Mancini isn't ready by getting a veteran outfielder.

Most of us felt that Mancini was probably going to be able to hit major league pitchers.

I dont think there is a single poster in OH that knew Mancini could play a decent COF in the majors, hell, he hadn't even played that in the MIL and we all heard the scouting reports about weak arm, yada yada yada.

 

[OFFNY]

o

 

(MAY 2nd)

 

Darvish was KO'd from today's game against the Rockies after 4.33 innings.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=380502116 

 

In 6 starts so far this season, he has a 6.00 ERA and a 1.567 WHIP over 30 Innings Pitched.

He does have a solid Strikeout ratio (37 Strikeouts over 30 Innings Pitched.)

One month down, 5 to go.

 

o

[weams]

On 1/24/2018 at 8:38 AM, Redskins Rick said:

It also easy for others to throw stones at DD for some of the decisions, like Miggy, we all love Miggy, but it looked like he was running out of gas and the downleg side of his career. Its great he was able to regroup and keep pitching. I can see the posts now, if they had kept him here and he didnt regroup well, geeze, they like to keep the vets.

 

Disabled. Makes Tillman look good. 

[Redskins Rick]

13 hours ago, weams said:

 

Disabled. Makes Tillman look good. 

Doesnt it!!!!