We’re the worst team in the business (Ownership driving decisions) - Dan Duquette

[Chromehill]

25 minutes ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

It almost certainly wasn't Peter making decisions this year and the boys probably had a good deal of involvement over the years.  What makes people so confident that now that the kids are apparently taking the reins that anything is really going to change?  What the OP says to me is that ownership doesn't understand the machine they own and chose to grease one gear until the entire thing seized.  Any other company that chooses to operate goes under due to that kind of neglect or decision making. 

I have little confidence in ownership that any rebuild they are the architects of will be a lasting success or, perhaps even, a success at all.  I sort of see this last window of success as the "blind squirrel finding a nut" situation.

108 losses and counting I would think qualifies as the business going under.  If this was European soccer, the O's would be relegated to AAA. 

I hate what happened too, however if I was the owner in poor health, in my late 80's and unpopular, I would have most likely tried the same thing and plowed all my resources into the major league team the last few years and hopefully win it all.  It was a big risk and Pete rolled snakes eyes and the team is an absolute joke. 

[drjohnnyfeva]

25 minutes ago, Chromehill said:

108 losses and counting I would think qualifies as the business going under.  If this was European soccer, the O's would be relegated to AAA. 

I hate what happened too, however if I was the owner in poor health, in my late 80's and unpopular, I would have most likely tried the same thing and plowed all my resources into the major league team the last few years and hopefully win it all.  It was a big risk and Pete rolled snakes eyes and the team is an absolute joke. 

I get what you're saying, but the neglect of all of the things like the International Market, scouting, and the farm are things that have been neglected for longer than just the last couple to three years.  Those are more "institutional/ organizational neglect" by this ownership team.

 

Added - - - ...which leads to my near total lack of confidence in them really doing anything they say they are going to do and thus another almost unbearable period of terrible baseball in this town.

[weams]

We are the worst team. We were a good team. We were not the best team. Owners tried to make us best. The end. 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Chromehill said:

108 losses and counting I would think qualifies as the business going under.  If this was European soccer, the O's would be relegated to AAA. 

I hate what happened too, however if I was the owner in poor health, in my late 80's and unpopular, I would have most likely tried the same thing and plowed all my resources into the major league team the last few years and hopefully win it all.  It was a big risk and Pete rolled snakes eyes and the team is an absolute joke. 

If you owned the team and ran it the way Peter Angelos did (and held onto it until your dying breath), I’d resent you for the rest of my life, too. 

[Cumberbundy]

Dan had too many resources invested in the mlb club which is why we have the worst mlb club in Baltimore history. The mlb club and overall organization would be cheaper and better if Dan never made a move; if all we did was draft and Dan just watched movies, we’d be better off today. 

[hoosiers]

1 hour ago, Chromehill said:

I hate what happened too, however if I was the owner in poor health, in my late 80's and unpopular, I would have most likely tried the same thing and plowed all my resources into the major league team the last few years and hopefully win it all.  It was a big risk and Pete rolled snakes eyes and the team is an absolute joke. 

I don't doubt at all that this is what happened.  I spent much time defending PA here a while back, but the selfishness inherent in the post above from PA is spectacular and a primary reason why there is no appropriate reason to defend him anymore.  The Os have been in this "all-in" Machado window for several years and it is clear the reason for this had more to do with PA's health and his desire to see another WS victory in his lifetime than to do what was in the best interest of the organization.  There is no way, for instance, that DD and BS did not realize would we not be competitive this season and did not recommend selling off pieces before the season.

At the same time, however, I would like to point out two things.  We would not be the first organization DD left that had mediocre forward prospects and an average or worse farm system.  DD was probably on-board or even devised the competitive window that has been seized by ownership for the "all in" effort the last several seasons that included ownership taking up the payroll into the $160M area.

The second thing is that DD is not without blame here.  I don't think it was Peter Angelos who picked out Travis Snider as a trade target in 2015.  Or who tried to sign Grant Balfour for 2014.  Or who offered Brian Matusz arbitration prior to 2016 and then dealt him 1.5 months into the season along with a high draft pick.  Or who signed Ryan Webb to a two year deal and then dealt Webb away a year later along with a high draft pick.  And I don't really care if PA coaxed DD into signing Jimenez and Gallardo to awful contracts while losing draft picks or if those moves are strictly on DD, the fact of the matter is that we had very few options otherwise given DD's neglect of the farm, his trades (Jake, Davies, EdRod, etc.). 

As far as I am concerned, what DD speaks now of ownership's decisions reflect half-truths of responsibility  Management did not invest properly internationally, sure, but management also gave DD a $160+M payroll that he had mediocre success with.  When did DD realize he should pull back and sell assets?  And even if that time were in 2015 and 2016, isn't that a realization that the team he had inherited and built upon for several years was uncompetitive.

[Cumberbundy]

1 hour ago, weams said:

We are the worst team. We were a good team. We were not the best team. Owners tried to make us best. The end. 

Owners let Dan try to make us the best, we are the worst. The end, indeed. 

[Cumberbundy]

2 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

I don't doubt at all that this is what happened.  I spent much time defending PA here a while back, but the selfishness inherent in the post above from PA is spectacular and a primary reason why there is no appropriate reason to defend him anymore.  The Os have been in this "all-in" Machado window for several years and it is clear the reason for this had more to do with PA's health and his desire to see another WS victory in his lifetime than to do what was in the best interest of the organization.  There is no way, for instance, that DD and BS did not realize would we not be competitive this season and did not recommend selling off pieces before the season.

At the same time, however, I would like to point out two things.  We would not be the first organization DD left that had mediocre forward prospects and an average or worse farm system.  DD was probably on-board or even devised the competitive window that has been seized by ownership for the "all in" effort the last several seasons that included ownership taking up the payroll into the $160M area.

The second thing is that DD is not without blame here.  I don't think it was Peter Angelos who picked out Travis Snider as a trade target in 2015.  Or who tried to sign Grant Balfour for 2014.  Or who offered Brian Matusz arbitration prior to 2016 and then dealt him 1.5 months into the season along with a high draft pick.  Or who signed Ryan Webb to a two year deal and then dealt Webb away a year later along with a high draft pick.  And I don't really care if PA coaxed DD into signing Jimenez and Gallardo to awful contracts while losing draft picks or if those moves are strictly on DD, the fact of the matter is that we had very few options otherwise given DD's neglect of the farm, his trades (Jake, Davies, EdRod, etc.). 

As far as I am concerned, what DD speaks now of ownership's decisions reflect half-truths of responsibility  Management did not invest properly internationally, sure, but management also gave DD a $160+M payroll that he had mediocre success with.  When did DD realize he should pull back and sell assets?  And even if that time were in 2015 and 2016, isn't that a realization that the team he had inherited and built upon for several years was uncompetitive.

Peter probably really wanted Parra.

[weams]

13 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

Peter probably really wanted Parra.

Peter never heard of Parra. 

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, Obando said:

Pete is no longer physically/mentally capable of running the organization and making decisions anymore. That’s the difference now.  It’s up to John & Lou to set the course and convince good baseball people why they should be a part of the rebuilding of this organization.  Unfortunately for them, their father has created a mess that they need to clean up, and there is an assumption that they will do things the same way their father did.  I think that’s unfair, but ultimately it will be up to them to change that perception.  I’m optimistic that they have learned from their father’s mistakes and will run the organization much differently (meaning for the better).  Let’s see how this all plays out.  It’s going to be a very interesting, and hopefully franchise-altering off season.  Can’t wait for the season to be over so the real work can get started!

And they can do that by coming out and start speaking in public. I hope at this point they are waiting until seasons end, but the longer they stay quiet, the more things are going to be written with the Orioles in a negative light. Everyone wants to know someone is in charge and making decision for this organization long term. 

Duquette is saying all of the right things, but his candor about about ownership suggests one of two things, he's either talked to John Angelos (who I believe is going to be the central figure) and feels he will be back, or he knows he won't be back. My money is on the latter.

[jjnono]

1 hour ago, weams said:

We are the worst team. We were a good team. We were not the best team. Owners tried to make us best. The end. 

This is only true in a narrow sense.  I'm assuming you mean Angelos was only willing to measure the success of this team on its ability to reach and win the World Series.  The transfer of organizational monies to salaries at the expense of other structural necessities has so badly positioned this team for future success, that any discussion of "making [the Orioles] best," isn't really viable on any other level.

But, you know, I kinda get it.  A dying man's wish.  The fans were just along for the ride, no matter how it turned out.  Imagine if Petey actually pulled it off, albeit with a long-shot ideal and poorly conceived planning -- his entrance into the netherworld would be gilded with orange and black banners and the fading accolades of a frenzied fan base!

At least we can't deny the reality of our situation.  No more half-hearted FA signings, no more wishful thinking dumpster diving, no more fingers crossed pitching decisions... Time to play The Game the right way again...

[Tony-OH]

24 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

Peter probably really wanted Parra.

This is your trolling warning. Do not troll posts. We get your point, you do not need to reply to every post with the same kinds of comments. We don't allow that here at the Hangout because it clogs up the board. 

We all get it, you blame Dan Duqutte for the Orioles failures. Point taken. If you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, just move on.

 

[turtlebowl]

Dan's comments are nothing more than someone that realizes that he may be looking for a job in several more days so it's time to say what he can to protect his reputation.  I'm certainly not doubting that some or most of what he is saying may not be true.  As some have said though if the directive was to put all the resources into the major league team to win during this window it was poorly constructed so that still falls on him.  Also Dan's motto has always been we want to be competitive every year.  It is a common saying of his that actually irks me because what does being competitive mean?  Anyways that comment seems to contradict everything he is saying now about the mandated goals the last few years of winning at all costs.

Dan didn't seem to be pointing fingers when he won executive of the year.  Now though he is trying to paint a picture that the organization knew they were sacrificing the long term stability of team by this "going for it" mandate.  Call me skeptical but to me all this is about is a man that has his finger prints on one of the worst teams in the history of the MLB and he is looking to push the blame off on others.

[brooksfrankjim]

I have been and remain a very harsh critic of. Angelos.  He killed the golden goose with 14 straight losing seasons, has made horrible decision after horrible decision.  

That said, I’m not going to smash him over trying to squeeze a World Series at the age of 88.  We just need to fix it going forward.  

[weams]

32 minutes ago, jjnono said:

This is only true in a narrow sense.  I'm assuming you mean Angelos was only willing to measure the success of this team on its ability to reach and win the World Series.  The transfer of organizational monies to salaries at the expense of other structural necessities has so badly positioned this team for future success, that any discussion of "making [the Orioles] best," isn't really viable on any other level.

But, you know, I kinda get it.  A dying man's wish.  The fans were just along for the ride, no matter how it turned out.  Imagine if Petey actually pulled it off, albeit with a long-shot ideal and poorly conceived planning -- his entrance into the netherworld would be gilded with orange and black banners and the fading accolades of a frenzied fan base!

At least we can't deny the reality of our situation.  No more half-hearted FA signings, no more wishful thinking dumpster diving, no more fingers crossed pitching decisions... Time to play The Game the right way again...

It was really close. The freakish Royals and the drug addled Davis were our only failures. Well, that and flying our closer cross country with no sleep.