Salvage a Split ??? (vs. RED SOX, 4/15)

[Il BuonO]

1 minute ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

I'm suggesting exactly what I said ........ on a ground ball right back to the pitcher in that situation (1st and 3rd with one out), the runner needs to leave the base, as Nunez did. Any coach will tell you to leave the base in that particular situation. Ground balls right back to the pitcher are the easiest of double plays, so even a speedy runner is usually thrown out in that situation. If Nunez had stayed put, there he would have fired to 2nd base and there is a very good chance that Smith (even with his speed) would have gotten doubled up.o

Any coach will not tell you to leave in that situation unless it’s a “run on contact” play, which is a dumb play. 

[OFFNY]

8 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

I'm suggesting exactly what I said ........ on a ground ball right back to the pitcher in that situation (1st and 3rd with one out), the runner at 3rd needs to leave the base, as Nunez did. Ground balls right back to the pitcher are the easiest of double plays, so even a speedy runner is usually thrown out in that situation. If Nunez had stayed put, the pitcher would have fired to 2nd base and there is a very good chance that Smith (even with his speed, and even with a split-second hesitation by the pitcher) would have gotten doubled up.

 

o

 

 

5 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

 

Any coach will not tell you to leave in that situation unless it’s a “run on contact” play, which is a dumb play. 

 

o

 

Well I think that "any coach" is/are wrong, as I have seen that play countless times (a groundball right back to the pitcher with runners on 1st and 3rd with one out), and the runner leaving the base has almost always been the right move, and the announcers/commentators on said plays have said the same thing.

 

o

[Il BuonO]

Just now, OFFNY said:

 

o

 

Well i think that "any coach" is wrong, as I have seen that play countless times (a groundball right back to the pitcher with runners on 1st and 3rd with one out), and the runner leaving the base has almost always been the right move, and the announcers/commentators on said plays have said the same thing.o

The announcers did not say that today, nor have I ever heard one say it was the right play. And I’ve watched quite a lot of games, too. However, was speaking not only of my experience playing but scouting and coaching. Never heard of another coach say it’s the right play either. Unless, again, the play was called ahead of time to run on contact. Run on contact is still used some in college, but generally not at the ML level because those guys usually make the throws.

One other thing, most pitchers don’t field their position very well. That spin and throw is by no means a sure thing. 

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

 

The announcers did not say that today, nor have I ever heard one say it was the right play. And I’ve watched quite a lot of games, too. However, was speaking not only of my experience playing but scouting and coaching. Never heard of another coach say it’s the right play either. Unless, again, the play was called ahead of time to run on contact. Run on contact is still used some in college, but generally not at the ML level because those guys usually make the throws.

One other thing, most pitchers don’t field their position very well. That spin and throw is by no means a sure thing. 

 

o

 

The Red Sox announcers did say that today (about the pitcher missing the chance for the double play.)

I'm glad that you have a lot of experience with scouting and coaching, but it doesn't change the circumstances of that play. It's relatively simple situation, and it doesn't necessarily take experience with coaching and/or scouting to assess it. If Nunez had stayed put, the pitcher would have had a good chance to turn the double play (even after the brief hesitation of checking the runner, which he should not have done in the first place.) The inning would have been over. As it was, the Orioles still had a runner in scoring position (albeit at 2nd base and not 3rd), and still had a chance to add to their 3-run lead. Your argument makes less sense to me, as a likely outcome that may have come out of it from what you are suggesting (Nunez staying put at 3rd base) is that the inning would have been over right then and there from a double play instead of the Orioles having another chance to add to their lead.

In your ideal situation, Nunez would have been at 3rd base and Martin at 1st base with 2 outs, if Martin had wound up beating out the double play attempt ........ and the only difference there (with 2 outs) is that the runner at 3rd would have been able to score on either a wild pitch or an infield single ........ I'll take avoiding the possibility of the double play and have the runners on 1st and 2nd every time. 

 

At this point, I see no need to continue to go back and forth with this. You obviously value the possibility of having the runner at 3rd base instead of at 2nd base with 2 outs (assuming that the double play does not get turned), and I clearly value the extra out that can be afforded if the pitcher pays attention to the runner breaking off of 3rd base (which nullifies the possibility of an inning-ending double play.)

 

o