Make Givens The Closer

[wildbillhiccup]

I understand that the manager's goal is to win as many games as possible, but for the love of god can someone from above please "direct" Hyde to make Givens our traditional closer so we can build his value and TRADE HIM.  As much flux as some of other bullpens are in around MLB there would definitely be a market for him. The Braves, Mariners, and Cubs are all teams that are contending that desperately need a dependable arm in the 9th. And you can probably add the Brewers to that list too since they really don't want to use Hader in that role. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I understand that the manager's goal is to win as many games as possible, but for the love of god can someone from above please "direct" Hyde to make Givens our traditional closer so we can build his value and TRADE HIM.  As much flux as some of other bullpens are in around MLB there would definitely be a market for him. The Braves, Mariners, and Cubs are all teams that are contending that desperately need a dependable arm in the 9th. And you can probably add the Brewers to that list too since they really don't want to use Hader in that role. 

Which teams do you think would value Givens more highly if he was in the role of the traditional closer?

[makoman]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I understand that the manager's goal is to win as many games as possible, but for the love of god can someone from above please "direct" Hyde to make Givens our traditional closer so we can build his value and TRADE HIM.  As much flux as some of other bullpens are in around MLB there would definitely be a market for him. The Braves, Mariners, and Cubs are all teams that are contending that desperately need a dependable arm in the 9th. And you can probably add the Brewers to that list too since they really don't want to use Hader in that role. 

I would think that teams are smarter than that these days--they will look at whether he's good, not how many saves he has or whatever.

[mdbdotcom]

Tough to build value as a closer when you only get 2 save opportunities per month.

[wildbillhiccup]

11 minutes ago, makoman said:

I would think that teams are smarter than that these days--they will look at whether he's good, not how many saves he has or whatever.

Saves + good numbers would add to his value. There's also something to be said for having closing experience. Not every team is embracing the closer by committee. The Braves are a great example. I'm sure they would kill to have a legitimate closer given the injury to Vizcaino and struggles of Minter. And I think they would much rather part with a young prospect then get bullied into signing someone like Kimbrel to a five year deal. 

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Tough to build value as a closer when you only get 2 save opportunities per month.

I realize the opportunities will be a few and far between, but GIvens should get all of them. Also, why hasn't he pitched since the 24th? It's even harder to showcase a player when he NEVER PITCHES. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

Saves + good numbers would add to his value. There's also something to be said for having closing experience. Not every team is embracing the closer by committee. The Braves are a great example. I'm sure they would kill to have a legitimate closer given the injury to Vizcaino and struggles of Minter. And I think they would much rather part with a young prospect then get bullied into signing someone like Kimbrel to a five year deal. 

Which teams value saves?

I honestly think teams have moved on from this mindset.  We have seen plenty of high leverage non-closers get traded for in recent history.  Miller being the obvious example.

[wildbillhiccup]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Which teams do you think would value Givens more highly if he was in the role of the traditional closer?

I mentioned it in another post, but the Braves in particular. I think signing Kimbrel is an absolute last resort for them because they don't want to get locked into a long term contract. They also seem to prefer a conventional closer. 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Which teams value saves?

I honestly think teams have moved on from this mindset.  We have seen plenty of high leverage non-closers get traded for in recent history.  Miller being the obvious example.

If a team prefers to use a traditional closer and they have to choose between two similar players, but one has prior experience in the 9th which one do you think they will choose? Which one would you choose? 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

If a team prefers to use a traditional closer and they have to choose between two similar players, but one has prior experience in the 9th which one do you think they will choose? Which one would you choose? 

Either the one that is the better pitcher or the one that falls best into their price range.

I mean, I guess if everything else is equal, which it never is, I can see a history of pitching well in the ninth could be the tiebreaker.  But I don't think it's all that important a consideration.

I also don't think a couple of months as the closer on a last place team would mean much even if a team was targeting saves.

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Either the one that is the better pitcher or the one that falls best into their price range.

I mean, I guess if everything else is equal, which it never is, I can see a history of pitching well in the ninth could be the tiebreaker.  But I don't think it's all that important a consideration.

I also don't think a couple of months as the closer on a last place team would mean much even if a team was targeting saves.

Ok, then why aren't we showcasing him? Why hasn't he pitched since the 24th? Has there honestly not been a high leverage situation in any game since the 24th? His lack of usage in general plus his lack of usage in the 9th is a bit of a head scratcher to me. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok, then why aren't we showcasing him? Why hasn't he pitched since the 24th? Has there honestly not been a high leverage situation in any game since the 24th? His lack of usage in general plus his lack of usage in the 9th is a bit of a head scratcher to me. 

Don't know.

I just don't think anointing him "closer" is going to accomplish anything.

[mdbdotcom]

30 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I realize the opportunities will be a few and far between, but GIvens should get all of them. Also, why hasn't he pitched since the 24th? It's even harder to showcase a player when he NEVER PITCHES. 

How many save opportunities have been given to someone else since the 24th?

[wildbillhiccup]

16 hours ago, mdbdotcom said:

How many save opportunities have been given to someone else since the 24th?

Closers pitch all the time in non save situations just to get in some work. It's not uncommon at ll. My main point was while there might have been very few save chances in that time frame there were most certainly "high leverage" situations. If it's Hyde's intent to use Givens in the most important game situations (regardless of the inning) then why did he have a week in between appearances? That's five straight games where he didn't feel there was a need / opportunity to use Givens. That just doesn't make sense to me. 

PS) And yes, I know he picked up a saved last night. 

[Redskins Rick]

16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Don't know.

I just don't think anointing him "closer" is going to accomplish anything.

Some people will find anything to complain about (not you)

Let him close.

Why is he closing?

You cant have it both ways.