Mancini Trade Package

[foxfield]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

I think actually that is the case with you.  You seem to argue the opposite of whatever my opinion is.  No  matter how well thought out or logical my reasoning. 

I agree completely....for the rest of the idiots, please list some of the well thought out ones and those logical thingies.  And thank you in advance for including the Adam Jones should still be here ones.

[Matt]

Mancini currently has a 1.3 oWAR. Tops on the team. That would be 3rd place on the Yankees, for instance. I think he has at least some value. More than what Atomic thinks, but probably less than what some might imagine.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

I think actually that is the case with you.  You seem to argue the opposite of whatever my opinion is.  No  matter how well thought out or logical my reasoning. 

Jumbling together subjective observations, cherry-picked SSS data, and a palpable dislike of both Orioles managment and the Hangout's consensus isn't logical.  It's contrarian.

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Matt said:

Mancini currently has a 1.3 oWAR. Tops on the team. That would be 3rd place on the Yankees, for instance. I think he has at least some value. More than what Atomic thinks, but probably less than what some might imagine.

Unfortunately he has that high offensive WAR because he is playing in right field most games.  All that gets cancelled out by his poor defensive play.  If he were switched to DH his offensive WAR would go down.  You could increase his offensive WAR by playing him at shortstop or catcher every game.  

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Jumbling together subjective observations, cherry-picked SSS data, and a palpable dislike of both Orioles managment and the Hangout's consensus isn't logical.  It's contrarian.

Why is it not logical to dislike Orioles management. We are the worst team in the league. 

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

Mancini currently has a 1.3 oWAR. Tops on the team. That would be 3rd place on the Yankees, for instance. I think he has at least some value. More than what Atomic thinks, but probably less than what some might imagine.

There are 38 players who've played at least 25 games at 1B or DH this season.  The median OPS+ among them is 116.  Mancini's career OPS+ is 117, and this season it's been 135 so far.  He's an average to average-plus 1B/DH, who has demonstrated a willingness to play a corner OF spot in a pinch.  He's under team control at a reasonable salary for three more years.  By any reasonble argument he's an average to a little better than average MLB player at reduced rates; acquiring a equivalent in free agency would mean spending $12-15M a year.  He's not someone you want to rely on to be an impact player, or to be productive into his 30s.  But he has value.

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

Unfortunately he has that high offensive WAR because he is playing in right field most games.  All that gets cancelled out by his poor defensive play.  If he were switched to DH his offensive WAR would go down.  You could increase his offensive WAR by playing him at shortstop or catcher every game.  

This is a fair point, but it is not a large adjustment between 1B and RF for offense, and his defense at 1B would be less of a liability.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There are 38 players who've played at least 25 games at 1B or DH this season.  The median OPS+ among them is 116.  Mancini's career OPS+ is 117, and this season it's been 135 so far.  He's an average to average-plus 1B/DH, who has demonstrated a willingness to play a corner OF spot in a pinch.  He's under team control at a reasonable salary for three more years.  By any reasonble argument he's an average to a little better than average MLB player at reduced rates; acquiring a equivalent in free agency would mean spending $12-15M a year.  He's not someone you want to rely on to be an impact player, or to be productive into his 30s.  But he has value.

I agree with you.

[DrungoHazewood]

5 minutes ago, atomic said:

Why is it not logical to dislike Orioles management. We are the worst team in the league. 

Did you hate Theo Epstein in 2012?  What about the Astros management in that timeframe?  Life isn't always about immediate gratification.

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

This is a fair point, but it is not a large adjustment between 1B and RF for offense, and his defense at 1B would be less of a liability.

Which is why WAR is not the whole measurement of a player's production, just a tool.

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Did you hate Theo Epstein in 2012?  What about the Astros management in that timeframe?  Life isn't always about immediate gratification.

Everyone on here was mocking the Astros when they had their streak of 50 win seasons. 

Red Sox had a 69 win season in 2012 and then won the World Series the next year.  I would surely put up with that any day of the week. I am not against a team rebuilding. I am against it not making any moves to improve the quality of their roster. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Did you hate Theo Epstein in 2012?  What about the Astros management in that timeframe?  Life isn't always about immediate gratification.

The Giants have the worst front office right now, their org is in chaos.

I know Atomic is not a troll, but dangit, the stuff he says, is really troll-like, and said, to stir the pot.

I get the team sucks, but it didnt happen overnight, and we have to give Elias time to work through this mess.

Toss the W-L out the door, and to the eye test, this is an easier team to watch then last season.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, atomic said:

Everyone on here was mocking the Astros when they had their streak of 50 win seasons. 

Red Sox had a 69 win season in 2012 and then won the World Series the next year.  I would surely put up with that any day of the week. I am not against a team rebuilding. I am against it not making any moves to improve the quality of their roster. 

Once again you've taken your opinion and attempted to give it legitimacy by attributing it to "Everyone on here".  Not true.

Epstein had left the Sox and gone to the Cubs by 2012.  That was the year he guided them to a 100-loss season as part of the rebuild.  You know, prior to their World Championship.  Just like the Astros.

[atomic]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Once again you've taken your opinion and attempted to give it legitimacy by attributing it to "Everyone on here".  Not true.

Epstein had left the Sox and gone to the Cubs by 2012.  That was the year he guided them to a 100-loss season as part of the rebuild.  You know, prior to their World Championship.  Just like the Astros.

Ok show me a post from back then where people were saying the Astros were smart to do this.  The Cubs won 61 games in 2012, 66 in 2013 and 73 in 2014.  Exactly what I say we should be doing.  

[Lucky_13]

Just now, atomic said:

Ok show me a post from back then where people were saying the Astros were smart to do this.  The Cubs won 61 games in 2012, 66 in 2013 and 73 in 2014.  Exactly what I say we should be doing.  

How is winning 61 or 66 games better then winning 50 or 55?  At least the latter gets you the number one pick.  The strategy of trying to win 70 games reminds me of what the New York Jets did from like 2008-2016.  Suck but not enough to really be able to secure impact talent.