Unilateral NL DH by 2021?

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, esmd said:

I don't see why a manager could choose to NOT have a DH if a pitcher is a good hitter.  Doubt any of them will, but I think technically you could allow your pitcher to hit in the AL, correct.  Doesn't Shohei Otani hit?

I don't think Ohtani has ever batted in a game where he also pitched.  It looks like most of the time they'd DH Albert Pujols, which is kind of ironic since at this point in their careers Ohtani is a far better hitter.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, jamalshw said:

I'm onboard with a universal DH, but I wonder if it opens the door for more playing time for no-hit SS or C types. I also wonder if/when a team will use the DH to replace said light hitting defensive whiz rather than the pitcher (when, say, Ohtani or Bumgarner are on the mound).

The rule specifically is to allow a DH to hit for the pitcher, and only the pitcher.  There is no way to DH for anyone else.  They would have to rewrite the rules to allow for a DH for the SS (or whatever other position) and have the pitcher bat.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, esmd said:

I don't see why a manager could choose to NOT have a DH if a pitcher is a good hitter.  Doubt any of them will, but I think technically you could allow your pitcher to hit in the AL, correct.  Doesn't Shohei Otani hit?

The DH rule makes it very clear that it's optional.  Any AL team could choose to not use the DH in any game. 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

Only 6 players had 100 or more appearances at DH last year and only 11 players with at least 20 DH appearances had more appearances at DH than in the field.

There are very few DH only guys in the league, Nelson Cruz, Khris Davis and Shoehei Otani were the only players who didn't play at least 10 games in the field.

10 games is a pretty low bar to set. I'd like it to be a bit more painful for a team if they chose to regularly sacrifice offense for defense. Right now it's too easy to hide the defensive shortcomings of the players you mentioned as well as others like Encarnacion, Pujols, Sano, Choo, Y.Gurriel, Vogelbach, Soler, C.Martinez, Alonso, Morales, etc. 

 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

By that logic, the dimensions of each baseball field should be exactly the same.

I like the differences between the leagues. It is what makes baseball unique. I like the idea of pitchers hitting, but in today's game, I think it's run its course.  It's basically an automatic out at this point - and leads to some really unexciting baseball. Wouldn't be upset about either outcome.

The real separation between leagues has been ceremonial for a long time.  They used to have separate AL and NL umps, league presidents, league offices.  They didn't use the same baseballs. There were various restrictions on trading between leagues; ever notice that many, many players from prior to the 1960s played their whole careers in one league, even though they were traded multiple times?  The AL adopted the modern foul-strike rule in 1902, the NL not until '04 (or it might have been the other way around). Of course there was no inter-league play until the 1990s.  There were at least perceived differences in strategy and strike zones.

Today the only thing left is the DH, they're really just conferences in the same league otherwise.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

10 games is a pretty low bar to set. I'd like it to be a bit more painful for a team if they chose to regularly sacrifice offense for defense. Right now it's too easy to hide the defensive shortcomings of the players you mentioned as well as others like Encarnacion, Pujols, Sano, Choo, Y.Gurriel, Vogelbach, Soler, C.Martinez, Alonso, Morales, etc. 

 

 

One option I used to oppose but might not mind is an eight-man lineup.  Eliminate the DH and pitcher hitting in one fell swoop.  Sure, everyone would get about 10% more plate appearances, but so what?  The game is probably better if Mike Trout gets 10% more impact on the offense.

[MurphDogg]

22 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

10 games is a pretty low bar to set. I'd like it to be a bit more painful for a team if they chose to regularly sacrifice offense for defense. Right now it's too easy to hide the defensive shortcomings of the players you mentioned as well as others like Encarnacion, Pujols, Sano, Choo, Y.Gurriel, Vogelbach, Soler, C.Martinez, Alonso, Morales, etc. 

Teams are making due with the rule that exists. Most of those guys would be slotted into a position at first base or corner outfield, but they play DH because they happen to play in the American League after 1972 and someone has to. Renato Nunez had the third most appearances at DH last year not because he is some 280 pound oaf, but because that is where Brandon Hyde slotted him into the lineup and because DHing didn't negatively impact his batting, which it does for many players.

That is why the argument against Edgar Martinez for the Hall of Fame was so dumb. He didn't make up the rule, he would have been fine as a completely nondescript defensive first baseman. Having someone that is able to succeed at DH is an asset not a liability.

[OsEatAlEast]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yup, you are.  In case you wanted to erase any doubt.  

I don't have the numbers in front of me and probably never will. But my feeling is the O's have died more by the Paul Molitor's of the world than they have lived by the Harold Baines'. O's DH's have almost always been below league average. I'd much rather an easy out in the other lineup along with shorter games.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, OsEatAlEast said:

I don't have the numbers in front of me and probably never will. But my feeling is the O's have died more by the Paul Molitor's of the world than they have lived by the Harold Baines'. O's DH's have almost always been below league average. I'd much rather an easy out in the other lineup along with shorter games.

With our crap pitching, there are no easy outs.

[OsEatAlEast]

11 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Teams are making due with the rule that exists. Most of those guys would be slotted into a position at first base or corner outfield, but they play DH because they happen to play in the American League after 1972 and someone has to. Renato Nunez had the third most appearances at DH last year not because he is some 280 pound oaf, but because that is where Brandon Hyde slotted him into the lineup and because DHing didn't negatively impact his batting, which it does for many players.

That is why the argument against Edgar Martinez for the Hall of Fame was so dumb. He didn't make up the rule, he would have been fine as a completely nondescript defensive first baseman. Having someone that is able to succeed at DH is an asset not a liability.

Not really dumb by the premise that he most likely would have had a shorter career if not for the DH.

[tntoriole]

I am amazed the union has not been able to change this rule in all these years.  

Long overdue. 2020 is not 1973.   

[OsEatAlEast]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

With our crap pitching, there are no easy outs.

Touche'! But not historically I surmise.

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

It'd make life easier.

You don't see the NFC not having field goal kickers and being awarded 7 points for a touchdown while the AFC still has to kick the PAT, right?  Sports should have the same rules across all leagues/divisions.  Being quirky when it comes to rules isn't really something to be proud of.

A straw man argument. The two situations are not remotely comparable. And it’s not quirky, because two leagues have been this different for years,  and neither is affected by the others use or non-use of the rule. It creates a different strategy, so when you go to a national league game you’ll see a slightly different strategy because you have different options available. I actually prefer NL although all my teams are American League.

I hate interleague play too, and the 2WC, and the juiced ball, robot umps and replay, But those are all different topics and warrant different discussions.

But the Difference between the two leagues is part of the excitement of baseball.

[weams]

4 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Cardinals fans will be inconsolable. 

Pujols, McGwire, Chris Correa. I don't care. That's a place that can settle itself right down.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Philip said:

A straw man argument. The two situations are not remotely comparable. And it’s not quirky, because two leagues have been this different for years,  and neither is affected by the others use or non-use of the rule. It creates a different strategy, so when you go to a national league game you’ll see a slightly different strategy because you have different options available. I actually prefer NL although all my teams are American League.

I hate interleague play too, and the 2WC, and the juiced ball, robot umps and replay, But those are all different topics and warrant different discussions.

But the Difference between the two leagues is part of the excitement of baseball.

Bro, you're not going to knock me off by calling it a "straw man" argument.  Everyone who's ever said "OMG STRAW MAN!" at someone just automatically expects the other side to just kowtow.  And that ain't happening here, hombre.

Yes, two situations are remotely comparable.  It would be two conferences/divisions in same sport, playing the same sport with two separate sets of rules, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what happens between the AL and NL.  Just because when you plant your ass in one stadium doesn't mean you should have to watch a slightly different strategy than you would had you planted your ass in another stadium.  

Would the NFC benefit from not having field goal kickers while the AFC had to kick the PAT?  Probably.  The NFC would still have to employ a kicker of some sort for kickoffs and regular field goals.  The NFC would probably have higher scoring games but the better kickers would most likely be in the AFC because now PATs aren't chip shots anymore.  So it does create a different strategy because roster setups would be different.  You would have teams in the NFC possibly trying to get one guy who could punt/kickoff/PAT in an effort to open up another roster spot for a linebacker, safety, guard, etc.