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Cease vs everyone else


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1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

 I said exactly what I meant to say. There's no GM in baseball who's taking (just for the 2024 season) a a young pitcher with three months of MLB success over a pitcher who's had four successfully seasons, including one in which he finished as the runner up for the Cy Young, and who's already demonstrated the ability to be a workhorse.

BTW.  That 3.93 FIP for GRod was for the whole year.  He had a 2.54 ERA after the all-star break.  Cease was 4.96.   As wildcard said, GRod threw a combined 163 innings last year.   Plenty of GM’s concerned about Cease 2023 and knowing Rodriguez second half after he got fixed would put their money on Rodriguez.   

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6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I am very optimistic about both.  But you are more optimistic than me by a long shot.  Sure they both could be as good or better than the second half of last year.  But it’s not that likely, and we don’t need them to be.  

This is where I am. I'm optimistic as well, but you have to at least ground that optimism in at least a semblance of reality. We're discussing whether Rodriguez is a better pitcher than Cease right now and honestly we should probably be having that conversation about him versus Bradish. I imagine there are plenty of GMs out there who would prefer Cease over Bradish in 2024. I hope they're wrong, but the general sentiment in the industry is that they're expecting him (Bradish) to regress. 

 

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3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

His FIP was 3.93, not his xERA, which was 4.18, both lower than his actual ERA. If you‘re insisting on using these stats to prove a point, make sure your point supports your argument. 

Appreciate the correction (mistakes happen) and it would seem to support my argument even more. 

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1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

This is where I am. I'm optimistic as well, but you have to at least ground that optimism in at least a semblance of reality. We're discussing whether Rodriguez is a better pitcher than Cease right now and honestly we should probably be having that conversation about him versus Bradish. I imagine there are plenty of GMs out there who would prefer Cease over Bradish in 2024. I hope they're wrong, but the general sentiment in the industry is that they're expecting him (Bradish) to regress. 

 

You know the general sentiment in the industry?   You’re too much.  LOL

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4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

BTW.  That 3.93 FIP for GRod was for the whole year.  He had a 2.54 ERA after the all-star break.  Cease was 4.96.   As wildcard said, GRod threw a combined 163 innings last year.   Plenty of GM’s concerned about Cease 2023 and knowing Rodriguez second half after he got fixed would put their money on Rodriguez.   

I honestly don't think you believe half the things that you write when you respond to my posts. It really feels like you're just arguing just for the sake of arguing because in some weird way you think I've wronged you. I think it would probably be best if I just didn't engage you again. 

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2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

The majority here voted Cowser and Ortiz was ok.  There’s your two top 100.

You've mentioned this a couple of times.  I remember a poll in which I voted no.  When I voted, the majority was on the no side.  Now, I haven't looked at that poll since, so it may well have ended up with more yeses than noes, but I doubt that it was a landslide.  In any case, I don't think for a second that my vote, or the vote of a few dozen fans on a message board matters one iota to the baseball executives involved in this decision.  Fun discussion, but really quite meaningless.  Personally, I think both teams would be better off talking about a package of 4 or 5 young, high-upside lottery tickets.  Not as sexy for White Sox fans, but probably better for their team in the long run.  I don't see how a couple of MLB-ready guys that the CWS would plug in to their lineup and start their clock on this season would be as helpful to them when they are ready to contend.  If 2024 and 2025 is their chief concern, why trade Cease?  Oh well, just my two cents -- and that's about all it's worth.  🙂

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Just now, HakunaSakata said:

I honestly don't think you believe half the things that you write when you respond to my posts. It really feels like you're just arguing just for the sake of arguing because in some weird way you think I've wronged you. I think it would probably be best if I just didn't engage you again. 

We’re engaged?   Ewwwww!

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31 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Have you ever seen Basallo?  Anyone who thinks he’s anywhere close to 180 is in for a big surprise.  He’s pretty filled.

Ok so he’s 19….he will likely fill out more. How much did your weight change from a teenager to 22-23?

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Just now, Number5 said:

You've mentioned this a couple of times.  I remember a poll in which I voted no.  When I voted, the majority was on the no side.  Now, I haven't looked at that poll since, so it may well have ended up with more yeses than noes, but I doubt that it was a landslide.  In any case, I don't think for a second that my vote, or the vote of a few dozen fans on a message board matters one iota to the baseball executives involved in this decision.  Fun discussion, but really quite meaningless.  Personally, I think both teams would be better off talking about a package of 4 or 5 young, high-upside lottery tickets.  Not as sexy for White Sox fans, but probably better for their team in the long run.  I don't see how a couple of MLB-ready guys that the CWS would plug in to their lineup and start their clock on this season would be as helpful to them when they are ready to contend.  If 2024 and 2025 is their chief concern, why trade Cease?  Oh well, just my two cents -- and that's about all it's worth.  🙂

There were 2 polls that asked the same question done about 3 weeks apart. The first one was more no than yes. The second one was the other way around.

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3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Why is that? 

...because his xERA was even higher than I initially stated? Honestly though I really don't think it's worth diving too much into Grayson's 2023 numbers because it's such a small sample size. He initially struggled then came back and had some success, which is certainly a positive sign. And he seems to be trending in the right direction, which is great. I just think it's a little early to put him on the same level as a pitcher like Cease. I hope he continues to progress, but to say that he's already at the Cease level seems very premature to me. 

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2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There were 2 polls that asked the same question done about 3 weeks apart. The first one was more no than yes. The second one was the other way around.

LOL.  That is funny.  Pretty good indicator of the value of these fan polls to the front offices involved, IMO.

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1 minute ago, Number5 said:

You've mentioned this a couple of times.  I remember a poll in which I voted no.  When I voted, the majority was on the no side.  Now, I haven't looked at that poll since, so it may well have ended up with more yeses than noes, but I doubt that it was a landslide.  In any case, I don't think for a second that my vote, or the vote of a few dozen fans on a message board matters one iota to the baseball executives involved in this decision.  Fun discussion, but really quite meaningless.  Personally, I think both teams would be better off talking about a package of 4 or 5 young, high-upside lottery tickets.  Not as sexy for White Sox fans, but probably better for their team in the long run.  I don't see how a couple of MLB-ready guys that the CWS would plug in to their lineup and start their clock on this season would be as helpful to them when they are ready to contend.  If 2024 and 2025 is their chief concern, why trade Cease?  Oh well, just my two cents -- and that's about all it's worth.  🙂

Two polls. 3 weeks apart.  Same exact poll.  First poll was clearly against trading Cowser and Ortiz.  Second was clearly in favor of it.

No one thinks a message board poll has any affect on a GM.   Not sure that even needs to be said but whatever.   
 

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5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Ok so he’s 19….he will likely fill out more. How much did your weight change from a teenager to 22-23?

From 19 to 22, not that much.  The point is that he’s already filled out if you’ve seen him.   He might get bigger or more muscular but his frame is filled.   You don’t care that almost, if not every, “expert” thinks he can stick at catcher?

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14 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

This is where I am. I'm optimistic as well, but you have to at least ground that optimism in at least a semblance of reality. We're discussing whether Rodriguez is a better pitcher than Cease right now and honestly we should probably be having that conversation about him versus Bradish. I imagine there are plenty of GMs out there who would prefer Cease over Bradish in 2024. I hope they're wrong, but the general sentiment in the industry is that they're expecting him (Bradish) to regress. 

 

Where are you getting the “general sentiment in the industry?”

I look at it this way, when you’ve just finished 3rd in the league in ERA, there’s a lot more room to do worse than to do better.  And, he can do worse and still be one of the top pitchers in the league.

Personally, I’d bet on Bradish over Cease, but it’s maybe a 60/40 proposition.  Cease and Rodriguez, I’d say 55/45 in Cease’s favor.  The odds that both our guys are better than Cease are nowhere near 90%.   Like I said before, maybe a 1 in 4 chance.  

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  • Posts

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