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Cease vs everyone else


Sports Guy

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I previously thought the Orioles should not offer more than Ortiz as the best player for Cease, but that’s because (1) I’d be fine not doing the deal if that weren’t enough, and (2) I thought / still think Ortiz should be about a top 50 prospect and not outside the top 100 like many outlets have him. I think it was BA who said a lot of executives have tagged him with the “future utility IF” label and that’s certainly damning to his trade value. 

I don’t think Ortiz did anything last year that should have dropped his prospect stock - he hit .321/.378/.507 good for a 121 wRC+. He is old for AAA but it’s not like it’s taken him a long time to work his way through the minors, that’s a product of the COVID year and his shoulder injury. Even if you don’t think he’s a plus plus SS, by all accounts he should be at least above average there and even if he is only a 90-100 wRC+ guy at the MLB level then that’s still about a 3 WAR player. I think he’s just been dropped in some prospect ratings because of the age and he doesn’t have the tantalizing upside of younger prospects. 

But I digress. If his trade value doesn’t align with that, then by all means the Orioles should keep him. If he’s a future Utility IF he’ll be a very good one and he’s a great complementary fit with Gunnar and Holliday given the righty bat and that he doesn’t have any questions about his ability to play SS long term. His gap power and line drive approach is also an excellent fit as a righty in OPACY in that the wall won’t have the same degree of detrimental impact on him as other righty profiles, and we’re still going to need some righties to balance the team given all the lefties.

A deal for Cease is not going to get done without one of Westburg, Kjerstad or Cowser. I still think there’s something there that works but the best package really depends on where you think Mayo ends up defensively.

And if the White Sox are fixated on Mayo they’re wasting their time. If the ask is Kjerstad/Cowser AND Westburg, I also don’t think the Orioles should or would do that, but one of those 3 plus a handful of other solid prospects is probably where a deal could be made. I’m still not expecting it to happen, though.

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15 hours ago, Malike said:

I'd recommend you go back and read the thread about Teixeira, Mark.

Any rumors about Getz attending the Ravens game tomorrow? Not sure if we've had a chance to see Elias's wining and dining skills on display. Will he make that WOW offer? 

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6 hours ago, CompuCoach said:

Any rumors about Getz attending the Ravens game tomorrow? Not sure if we've had a chance to see Elias's wining and dining skills on display. Will he make that WOW offer? 

When Cease is spotted at the game tomorrow is he there for an O's physical or just a football fan?

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Bob Nightengale this morning:

It’s hard to believe the Baltimore Orioles, after winning 101 games last year, won’t do anything more this winter than sign veteran closer Craig Kimbrel to a one-year, $13 million contract to replace injured Felix Bautista. 

They need another frontline starter, but talks with the White Sox for Dylan Cease have stopped. 

They currently have just a $73 million payroll.

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8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Nightengale saying it’s the Mariners, who are now offering one of Woo or Miller, or Cease is a WS on OD.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/01/27/shohei-ohtani-dodgers-stan-kasten-pwhl-hockey/72384625007/

To be fair he said that the White Sox are asking for Woo or Miller, not that the Mariners are offering either one of them. I think the big takeaway though is that it seems that the White Sox would prefer a Cease trade package be headlined by a young pitcher. That would explain why we've seemingly reached a bit of an impasse since we really don't have a Woo or Miller equivalent. Not unless we include Hall in the package. And even then he's still probably a notch below both of those pitchers. 

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9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Nightengale saying it’s the Mariners, who are now offering one of Woo or Miller, or Cease is a WS on OD.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/01/27/shohei-ohtani-dodgers-stan-kasten-pwhl-hockey/72384625007/

This sounds like an obvious plant on the WS side.  If the Mariners don't. meet their price they'll keep him.  So if the Mariners meet their price they'll trade him.   They won't trade him if another team meets their price?    Sounds like more PR bs in order to get Elias to budge.

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4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

To be fair he said that the White Sox are asking for Woo or Miller, not that the Mariners are offering either one of them. I think the big takeaway though is that it seems that the White Sox would prefer a Cease trade package be headlined by a young pitcher. That would explain why we've seemingly reached a bit of an impasse since we really don't have a Woo or Miller equivalent. Not unless we include Hall in the package. And even then he's still probably a notch below both of those pitchers. 

Ahhh good catch.  I do find it hard to believe that Seattle would do that.
 

And yea, that was my thought too. If they want a deal centered on a pitcher, we are out.

 

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2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This sounds like an obvious plant on the WS side.  If the Mariners don't. meet their price they'll keep him.  So if the Mariners meet their price they'll trade him.   They won't trade him if another team meets their price?    Sounds like more PR bs in order to get Elias to budge.

Yeah, well there's a reason Cease Has not been traded for months CWS are asking for too much .

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12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Nightengale saying it’s the Mariners, who are now offering one of Woo or Miller, or Cease is a WS on OD.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/01/27/shohei-ohtani-dodgers-stan-kasten-pwhl-hockey/72384625007/

The column didn't say that.  It said that the White Sox were asking for a package headlined by Woo or Miller.  Big difference.  Even a Chicago-based columnist isn't going to claim that Getz's demands have been met by any team.  They obviously haven't been.  Nightengale did go so far as to refer to Cease as an "ace", which is silly enough, and went on to paint the Orioles' refusal to pay the outrageous ask for Cease as somehow being a mistake by Elias.  Maybe he's afraid that White Sox fans will riot, so he's trying to run a little PR for the team.  LOL.

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1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Ahhh good catch.  I do find it hard to believe that Seattle would do that.
 

And yea, that was my thought too. If they want a deal centered on a pitcher, we are out.

Honestly Elias should probably just pivot away from Cease at this point. I just don't see it happening based on what they the seem to be looking for. The irony is they're so bad and devoid of talent that they really should just take the best package offered to them regardless of player positions. 

So I guess all our eggs are in the FA basket, unless the Astros decide to trade Valdez. And the only potential difference makers left, Snell and Montgomery, are most likely out of our price range / length of deal comfort level.. It sounds like we're probably destined for another Gibson like signing accompanied by the typical front office rhetoric about how the better FAs were overpriced/overvalued blah blah blah. 

It will be interesting to see how much Boras will be able to get for Montgomery in particular. You could make comps between Wacha and S.Gray and both of those pitchers received wildly different contracts for some reason. My guess is Boras will push for more than S. Gray. So probably something like 3 years / $80M. 

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The White Sox fired Ken Williams as EVP and Rick Hahn as general manager last August, conspicuously right after failing to trade Cease at the deadline.  It seemed logical that maybe Getz would bargain in better faith than Williams and Hahn had.  That's obviously not the case.  Seems to me that the problem may be ownership.  They seem to, on the one hand, demand that their GM trade Cease for prospects to rebuild/ retool the team; yet, on the other hand, insist that the prospect package that the GM gets in return be one worthy of a first-ballot HOFer.  If so, Getz is in an unenviable position.

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Nov 19, 2023 — The Dodgers and White Sox have discussed the possibility of Dylan Cease heading to Los Angeles, according to USA Today's Bob Nightengale.

The Braves are among the teams in ongoing trade talks with the White Sox regarding right-hander Dylan Cease, reports USA Today’s Bob Nightengale

Bob Nightengale

Atlanta has joined the Dodgers and several others who are engaged in trade talks with the Chicago White Sox for ace Dylan Cease.

 

1 hour ago — According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today, the Seattle Mariners have quietly entered the trade talks for Chicago White Sox' ace Dylan Cease.

BTW,  what does “quietly entered the trade talks mean”?   You’re reporting on it.  I don’t think it’s that quiet unless a little birdie named Chris Getz told you.  Maybe Jerry Dipoto doesn’t know.

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35 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Honestly Elias should probably just pivot away from Cease at this point. I just don't see it happening based on what they the seem to be looking for. The irony is they're so bad and devoid of talent that they really should just take the best package offered to them regardless of player positions. 

So I guess all our eggs are in the FA basket, unless the Astros decide to trade Valdez. And the only potential difference makers left, Snell and Montgomery, are most likely out of our price range / length of deal comfort level.. It sounds like we're probably destined for another Gibson like signing accompanied by the typical front office rhetoric about how the better FAs were overpriced/overvalued blah blah blah. 

It will be interesting to see how much Boras will be able to get for Montgomery in particular. You could make comps between Wacha and S.Gray and both of those pitchers received wildly different contracts for some reason. My guess is Boras will push for more than S. Gray. So probably something like 3 years / $80M. 

We really have no idea what’s going on. If all the WS wanted was a deal centered around a guy who is a top 50 pitching prospect or someone who is just outside of rookie status, the Os would have been out a while back.

So I don’t buy that’s all they want. It may be what they prefer though.

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