Adam Jones wins Gold Glove

[trk001]

Jonesy caught more balls per nine innings than any of his peers. You ca argue about how many balls were hit near enough to him, or over his head or whatever, but the fact remains. He did it.

Felix Pie has the same RF/9 (3.3) as Adam Jones (3.2) in his time in Center Field. I think it's more likely that the Orioles pitchers are giving up more fly balls (4th highest in MLB at 39.7%) than other pitchers and they happen to be going to center field. Carlos Gomez of the Twins, who you had listed as 2nd in RF/9? He's on the Twins, who lead MLB in Fly ball rate (41%). Franklin Gutierrez was with the Mariners, who had the 3rd highest. Catching more balls doesn't make you a defensive wizard, it just means you've had more balls to catch.

RF/9 is Range Factor per 9 Innings (9*(Put Out + Assists)/Innings Played)

[Lucky Jim]

Yeah, don't get into it. Because you're wrong.

Almost as good is his assertion that the "so-called 'optimistic' people are the ones complaining."

1. No one is complaining.

2. The "optimistic people" tag is of his own doing. It's clearly not accurate, and yet he uses its lack of fit as if it were an indictment of the very people he labeled.

Just a dumb-ass post all around.

[Boy Howdy]

Felix Pie has the same RF/9 (3.3) as Adam Jones (3.2) in his time in Center Field. I think it's more likely that the Orioles pitchers are giving up more fly balls (4th highest in MLB at 39.7%) than other pitchers and they happen to be going to center field. Carlos Gomez of the Twins, who you had listed as 2nd in RF/9? He's on the Twins, who lead MLB in Fly ball rate (41%). Franklin Gutierrez was with the Mariners, who had the 3rd highest. Catching more balls doesn't make you a defensive wizard, it just means you've had more balls to catch.

RF/9 is Range Factor per 9 Innings (9*(Put Out + Assists)/Innings Played)

I understand all of that. Pie didn't the list because it consisted of guys who played at least 800 innings at the position.

Gomez and Gutierrez, in addition to playing behind fly ball staffs, are also almost universally lauded for their exceptional range. Bottom line is, Jones caught more balls per inning than anyone else in 2009. No taking that away from him.

[trk001]

I understand all of that. Pie didn't the list because it consisted of guys who played at least 800 innings at the position.

Gomez and Gutierrez, in addition to playing behind fly ball staffs, are also almost universally lauded for their exceptional range. Bottom line is, Jones caught more balls per inning than anyone else in 2009. No taking that away from him.

It's just a random stat with little to no use; it doesn't delineate between what balls were hit right at him and which balls he had to stretch, dive or run for. It doesn't account for errors, misread balls or bad routes.

It's like saying Mark Teixeira lead the American League in RBIs with 122 and you can't take that away from him. Fine, but he did nothing to put the runners on base before him. He didn't make the runners in front of him hit. He didn't make the pitchers walk the batters in front of him. Yes, he hit the ball when runners were on base, but it could just as easily have been no runners, 1 runner, 2 runners, or bases loaded. It's an arbitrary stat that says nothing about his ability to hit. It means nothing worthwhile and it only useful as a curiosity.

It's a useless stat without context; this is a problem with all fielding stats, they're very difficult to quantify in a meaningful manner.

Then factor that in with the fact that the top three guys you listed are all center fielders on teams that are in the top 5 of Fly Ball rates and are therefore more likely to have fly balls hit to them and it just doesn't mean anything to me.

[Lucky Jim]

I understand all of that. Pie didn't the list because it consisted of guys who played at least 800 innings at the position.

Gomez and Gutierrez, in addition to playing behind fly ball staffs, are also almost universally lauded for their exceptional range. Bottom line is, Jones caught more balls per inning than anyone else in 2009. No taking that away from him.

No. That's true. It just doesn't mean much. I'm not going to give the Gold Glove to the 1B with the most put-outs per 9, either.

[byrdz]

Pie is the best defensive player on the team, period.

[trk001]

No. That's true. It just doesn't mean much. I'm not going to give the Gold Glove to the 1B with the most put-outs per 9, either.

I lack your gift of brevity.

[byrdz]

There might be other, more nefarious, reasons why people are always down on Adam Jones here, but I won't get into it.

MSK

No downers on this side of the monitor, Jones is my favorite current Oriole, by far.

[trk001]

No downers on this side of the monitor, Jones is my favorite current Oriole, by far.

That was his thinly veiled way of calling anyone who might think to criticize Adam Jones a potential racist.

[Mike B]

Pie is the best defensive player on the team, period.

Covering more ground does not make you the best player. The best player with the glove is Izzy. Pie in center is very good, in left not as good.

[Lucky Jim]

Covering more ground does not make you the best player. The best player with the glove is Izzy. Pie in center is very good, in left not as good.

Yeah, Izturis put up a nifty year this year. Now, if he could just put up a .700 OPS.

[trk001]

Yeah, Izturis put up a nifty year this year. Now, if he could just put up a .700 OPS.

Blood from a stone. He's done that one year in his career.

[byrdz]

That was his thinly veiled way of calling anyone who might think to criticize Adam Jones a potential racist.

I know what he was suggesting and am aware of the color of MSK skin, but I chose to ignore it, he should know better. It's just plainly not the truth.

[byrdz]

Covering more ground does not make you the best player. The best player with the glove is Izzy. Pie in center is very good, in left not as good.

Correct me if I'm wrong (seriously) but isn't range the most valued skill a defensive player can have?

[trk001]

Correct me if I'm wrong (seriously) but isn't range the most valued skill a defensive player can have?

Don't read too much into this, but range only means something if you can catch the ball once you reach it.

Fielding is a very nebulous thing to quantify AND qualify. There's no one stat you can point to and say "This man is a good baseball player because he has the *blah* highest stat." It's always a mish-mosh of stats, good plays, athleticism, and personal observations. A center fielder might have a penchant for robbing homeruns. A corner outfielder might be able to throw out runners at home plate. An infielder can make diving stops or turn double plays. A pitcher can run down bunts or snag liners hit at him. A catcher can block the plate and stop wild pitches. And there's somebody that will argue that each other these players it the best fielder because of that. There's so many different criteria that's it's just impossible to resolve it down into one number. That's the reason people argue about it endlessly.