MLB.com article with Angelos quotes

[RShack]

Did you not read what he said? Specifically, What part of that is disputable? Just take a look at the attendance figures I posted above.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Attendance isn't the mark of a good team, and neither is having the gov't give the team a new stadium. Back when the O's were good all the time, they were lucky to draw a million. Maybe you judge a franchise by attendance, I judge it by how well it does at consistenty putting a winning team on the field. And by winning, I don't mean .501 ball either.

You put the emphasis on the farm system time and again, deflecting focus away from the overall record.

And you like to deny reality because you're in love with EBW for some unknown reason. He's the guy who ruined the franchise and presided over the destruction of the Oriole Way, but you'd rather make up fairy tails about how PA did it. You pull this same stunt every time it comes up. Face it, the O's were never consistent winners without a good farm system and never will be again without one. So, unless you think the O's should be trying to buy flags via FA instead of growing good players, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Here is the overall record 1175-1347 (.466).

I said that PA deserves all the blame you can muster for not fixing the franchise until now. I said that, after he came in a spent a ton to get short-term success the wrong way, he then presided over an unconscionable tailspin. You know I said it, I know I said it, everybody knows I said it. Now, if you think the franchise wasn't ruined when he got it, I don't know what to tell you. EBW ran it into the ground as is proven by the fact that the O's stopped signing fresh MiL talent who made it the minute he got the team. They always had before, but when he took over, it's like somebody flicked a switch. Hoffberger signed Cal, sold the team to EBW, and that was it for homegrown position players who amounted to anything until BRob came up. Then the next guy after EBW was broke and in hock up to his ears and didn't have the money to fix anything. PA's sin was to continue in the footsteps of his 2 immediate predecessors by not restoring the Oriole Way that EBW destroyed. Why it took him this long to snap out of it, I have no idea. But he's the 3rd owner who was bad for the franchise by doing things the wrong way, not the first, and you know it. Why you pull this stunt of pretending otherwise, I really don't know.

[O's are Legends]

Evil genius strikes again!

Who knew Angelos was the Green Lantern.

[McNulty]

According to Sly:

Angelos doesn't think we can spend enough to consistantly beat the MFY/Sox. Andy MacPhail, in turn, has sold him on a plan where we use cheaper young talent supplemented by free agent signings when the young talent is ready to compete. This is, according to sly, MacPhail selling false hope.

You do realize a goal is something you strive for, and may possibly be unattainable. For example, my goal (with regards to this message board) is to not engage in conversations with you because it is a fruitless enterprise. However, its impossible (and I'm doing it right now) to ignore you forever, because you are the most perfect incarnation of an evil genius I've ever seen. I mean that as a compliment. Your mastery of your craft is unparalleled in our lifetime.

[Moose Milligan]

According to Sly:

Angelos doesn't think we can spend enough to consistantly beat the MFY/Sox. Andy MacPhail, in turn, has sold him on a plan where we use cheaper young talent supplemented by free agent signings when the young talent is ready to compete. This is, according to sly, MacPhail selling false hope.

You do realize a goal is something you strive for, and may possibly be unattainable. For example, my goal (with regards to this message board) is to not engage in conversations with you because it is a fruitless enterprise. However, its impossible (and I'm doing it right now) to ignore you forever, because you are the most perfect incarnation of an evil genius I've ever seen. I mean that as a compliment. Your mastery of your craft is unparallelled in our lifetime.

Dude, I can't get the perma-block thing to work. It's killing me.

[helloharv]

One of the most depressing and frustrating Orioles articles I have ever read

Peter is happy with Andy's results :eektf:

I guess Peter lied in the Pressbox interview when HE stated we can support a 110 million payroll .... where in the hell is all the MASN money going besides our owners pockets ?

[weams]

Man, you know it's bad when Frobby cracks.

That is what the Trea is playing for. Good Job. You have brought down our best and brightest!

[weams]

Dude, I can't get the perma-block thing to work. It's killing me.

I can

[weams]

Who knew Angelos was the Green Lantern.

He meant the Trea.

[RShack]

I just now read the linked to article that includes the PA quotes. I cannot believe that everybody in this thread is reading the same thing.

As I understand it, the words from the quotations come off the computer screen and into each reader's eyes, and then into the reader's brain. God only knows what happens to them once they start to rattle around in there, but it's apparent that not everyone's brain is, um, working the same way. I think a few folks here have a serious wiring problem...

[JTrea81]

That is what the Trea is playing for. Good Job. You have brought down our best and brightest!

I'm not trying to get anybody to crack.

I'm just saying Angelos has said what Andy is striving for is not possible unless the financial picture changes.

This is not what the fanbase was being sold.

People on here have constantly told me that Andy's plan will work, and that we'll spend money when we need to to become that perennial contender.

From what I've read Peter Angelos has just told everybody that pretty much isn't going to happen.

It's very discouraging, and should make people really question the direction of the franchise, but instead people will make excuses and say "well Andy didn't mean he wanted to build a perennial contender and that's okay."

When are we going to stop making excuses and lowering our standards on where we want the Orioles to be?

[Moose Milligan]

I got it to work! It works! I'm free!!!

[TonySoprano]

What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Attendance isn't the mark of a good team, and neither is having the gov't give the team a new stadium. Back when the O's were good all the time, they were lucky to draw a million. Maybe you judge a franchise by attendance, I judge it by how well it does at consistenty putting a winning team on the field. And by winning, I don't mean .501 ball either.

Unless attendance around baseball is down 49% since 1997, then Angelos' management of the business has driven away customers.

And you like to deny reality because you're in love with EBW for some unknown reason. He's the guy who ruined the franchise and presided over the destruction of the Oriole Way, but you'd rather make up fairy tails about how PA did it.

That's the same strawman argument you continue to make which has no basis in reality. Notice by my putting Angelos at the bottom of the pile, it also puts him behind Eli Jacobs, but that puts a hole in your strawman. Doesn't it?

You pull this same stunt every time it comes up.

Ditto.

[eddie83]

Oh, stop. They drafted 2 SP's and had a new stadium. So what? The franchise had not produced an everyday player who stuck since Cal more than a decade earlier. The farm system was crap, it had been left to rot for more than a decade before PA got it. The fact that the state gave the O's a new stadium doesn't change that. Just because they had the occasional non-losing season amid a ton of losing doesn't change the fact that the tradition of the Baltimore Orioles being a solid franchise was in the past years before PA showed up.

Look, I'm not defending PA. I said he deserves all the blame you can muster for not having fixed it until now. But there's no reason to make up BS stories that aren't true. The 2 owners before him ran the franchise into the ground. PA came in, spent a bunch of money the wrong way on a quick fix, and then presided over an unconscionable tailspin. The facts are what they are, there's no need to make any up false stories about it. BTW, had he not bought the team at auction in NY, what city do you think would have the team now?

What story did I make up? What false stories? I am well aware of what EBW did and that is when the farm system dried up. The bottom line is when Angelos bought the team we were a solid ballclub. Jacobs at least left Hemond run the team, Lucchino was here still as well, he knows the game. I am not telling you the early 90's were the glory days but we were competitive.

Camden Yards saved baseball in Baltimore not Peter Angelos. Please tell me the owner who would of moved the team away, to where? There is no where to go. The idea that Angelos saved baseball in Baltimore is a myth. In 1988 Governor Shaefer and EBW announced the stadium deal, that is what cemented baseball in Baltimore not a local owner who bought the team 2 seasons after Camden Yards was built. Why did the team sell for such a high price if it didn't have any value?

[Why_Knott?]

Did you not read what he said? Specifically, What part of that is disputable? Just take a look at the attendance figures I posted above.

They had a winning record three out of five years before he arrived. If I include the strike shortened year of 1994, the Orioles have only had three winning teams in sixteen years of his leadership. You put the emphasis on the farm system time and again, deflecting focus away from the overall record.

Here is the overall record 1175-1347 (.466). Name an owner of the Orioles who has a worse record than Angelos.

94-09A	W	L	PCTBOS	95	151	0.386CHW	58	76	0.433CLE	50	84	0.373DET	78	57	0.578KCR	84	49	0.632LAA	82	82	0.500MIL-A	28	17	0.622MIN	72	58	0.554NYY	90	161	0.359OAK	65	87	0.428SEA	82	79	0.509TBD	104	100	0.510TEX	75	77	0.493TOR	111	141	0.44094-09A	1074	1219	0.46894-09N	W	L	PCTARI	3	9	0.250ATL	13	17	0.433CHC	3	3	0.500CIN	1	2	0.333COL	4	5	0.444FLA	5	16	0.238HOU	6	3	0.667LAD	1	5	0.167MIL	3	3	0.500NYM	9	13	0.409PHI	24	21	0.533PIT	3	3	0.500SDP	4	2	0.667SFG	3	3	0.500STL	1	2	0.333WAS	18	21	0.46294-09N	101	128	0.441

Why do we suck so bad against Cleveland?

[isestrex]

King Peter left out something

His answer was quick: "If you check the record, the first $10 million player occurred roughly after 1995-96. That's when the numbers [salaries] started getting out of line. And when a couple of teams decided they were going to buy their way into the World Series it became strictly a money game."

Angelos added the Orioles had great attendance, but "we didn't raise our ticket prices; we tried to keep them in the reach of the average consumer. We're in a market which requires that, so we cannot claim to be heroic."

He believes franchises such as the Orioles -- unable to generate huge revenues -- cannot remain competitive, or at least stay even with teams such as the Yankees and Red Sox.

Why, then, did he sign Albert Belle? King Peter was perfectly willing to enter the Orioles into the "buy their way into the World Series" strategy but he messed it up. The only reason the Orioles can't spend the big bucks on a top free agent is because Camden Yards isn't what it once was.

IMO, the whole Davey Johnson thing was sad (along with Jon Miller) but this horrible spiral all began because King Peter TRIED THE SAME STRATEGY HE IS NOW BASHING... he just picked very very poorly. The Albert Belle signing was the beginning of the end and we're only now getting from underneath it.