MacPhail: "We've taken a giant step backwards."

[eddie83]

You make excellent points, but the problem is that up until recently, Andy MacPhail was a sacrosanct figure amongst many here on the OH. If you said anything about the man that didn't laud his baseball acumen, you were considered ignorant, troll-like or otherwise grossly uninformed.

Now, as the luster wears off, more and more people are beginning to see what many of us have been saying for quite some time: that AM is NOT going to build the Orioles into a contending baseball team because he is risk-averse and ridiculously conservative in the FA market to the point where we sign guys like Adam Eaton or Garrett Atkins.

Some fans act like Peter Angelos has $5 in the bank and the Orioles are on the brink of bankruptcy. The "we can't spend" mentality is one of the many, many excuses that become free passes for AM and Angelos to continually mismanage the franchise.

When I lived in NYC, there was a Ravens bar. Now that I am in Los Angeles, I saw Ravens fans all over the area during last year's playoff run. When a TEAM WINS fans will support them. The idea that the Orioles can't spend MORE MONEY and spend the MONEY THEY HAVE BETTER is something that gets lost in the translation around here.

I still don't get why so many don't understand that simple idea.

If the Orioles win games, old fans will come back and new fans will be generated. It happens all the time with all kinds of professional sports teams. Apparently, the powers that be in the warehouse are content with watching the continued implosion of what was one of the greatest baseball teams in history.

The only entertainment value I get is to see people still make excuses for Andy MacPhail's lousy FA signings and unwillingness to make major moves.

MSK

We play in a division with New York and Boston, in a sport that has only 4 playoff teams per league. We have to have a team as good as Boston or New York and now Tampa to make the playoffs. Why would a free agent decide to come to a team that has to meet that criteria if they don't have to? Everything we deal with is about the division we play in. I think Minnesota is a great franchise but if they played in this division would they make postseason? Would that rotation last? They don't have to answer those questions. If we played in a different division how do you know MacPhail wouldn't operate differently? Those same free agents and their agents understand how difficult it is to make the playoffs in this division. Tampa has built their team through the draft over an extended period of time. MacPhail has had 2 drafts and we already have Matusz our best pitcher since Mussina.

The NFL is a sport that only plays 16 games. 6 teams per league make the postseason. I love the Ravens but if the NFL only had 4 teams per conference they wouldn't of made the postseason last year. Their season would of basically been over when they lost to Cincy in week 9. At that point we were 4-4 and Cincy was 6-2 and they had beaten us twice. The wildcard is how we got in. Last year the 7-9 Jaguars controlled their own playoff destiny when they were 7-5 with 4 weeks left, that is the NFL. The Jets were 7-7 and played a 14-0 Colts team that rested people, then they beat a Cincy team that didn't try, that is the NFL. The NFL is a hype machine league, a bunch of players who just got drafted and talked about for 3 months are now famous and at the NFL level they have accomplished nothing.

Andy MacPhail has made mistakes but he didn't run the franchise into the ground that was done before he got here. You can't blame mistakes he didn't make. He inherited a team that was in it's 10th consecutive losing season in the toughest division in pro sports.

[bluedog]

I don't understand what Andy can do now though.

Say what you will about missed off season opportunities, but this is where we are now.

I don't see what a GM of a team like this can do, within reason, to make us that much better right now.

Stay the course.

Get Tillman, Arreita and Bergesen up here. Get Roberts, Pie and Gonzalez healthy. This team will improve tremendously when those things happen.

[JTrea81]

Stay the course.

Get Tillman, Arreita and Bergesen up here. Get Roberts, Pie and Gonzalez healthy. This team will improve tremendously when those things happen.

Pie is gone for three months. We have no idea about Roberts.

And starting pitching has not been our problem. Hitting is, specifically the lack of ML ready positional talent throughout the system.

We need bats.

[MemorialStadKid]

I really wish you hadn't quoted that post from MSK. My ignore feature was working fine, but I had to see that tripe because you responded.

I know that it won't matter, but MSK is all wet as usual.

Gotta love the maturity factor around here sometimes.

MSK

[MemorialStadKid]

Stop misrepresenting people (I think that lying is probably a more accurate description) and you won't hear from me at all. You CONSISTENTLY misrepresent both what you've written previously AND the positions of others. It is obnoxious and deserves to be called out.

BTW, how is the settling of that bet going since your post was basically another assertion of what the bet is about? I see your signature hasn't changed. Still having issues from that fire that prevent you from completing the bet or acknowledging defeat?

Oh yeah, way to ignore the actual baseball stuff in the post. I wish I was surprised.

I was talking baseball stuff until you decided to take another needless potshot directly at me.

Its funny how whenever I keep things pretty even keel, one of the clique comes out of the woodwork to make a personal comment. As far as the bet is concerned, I wasn't aware I made it with you. Because I didn't.

And as far as the subject of said bet is concerned, the last few weeks have been folks giving AM a pass of sorts, saying that we need to stay the course. I know damn well you've seen that too (I never said YOU said it either). And FYI, I wasn't using my fire as an excuse for anything, but it definitely takes a cold blooded, heartless individual to make light of someone else's misfortune, something you've done several times in reference to my situation.

Back to baseball:

People keep repeating that we don't have NY or Boston money. But then we also aren't broke. I keep hearing the same dead mantra of "we can't spend, we can't spend" but all it does is give the FO more excuses to not improve the team. I don't know why this is such a controversial idea around here.

I don't know if you realize this or not, but I want the Orioles to WIN. Saying that I believe this FO isn't going to do it doesn't make me the bad guy.

MSK

[amateurfan]

I was talking baseball stuff until you decided to take another needless potshot directly at me.

Its funny how whenever I keep things pretty even keel, one of the clique comes out of the woodwork to make a personal comment. As far as the bet is concerned, I wasn't aware I made it with you. Because I didn't.

And as far as the subject of said bet is concerned, the last few weeks have been folks giving AM a pass of sorts, saying that we need to stay the course. I know damn well you've seen that too (I never said YOU said it either). And FYI, I wasn't using my fire as an excuse for anything, but it definitely takes a cold blooded, heartless individual to make light of someone else's misfortune, something you've done several times in reference to my situation.

Back to baseball:

People keep repeating that we don't have NY or Boston money. But then we also aren't broke. I keep hearing the same dead mantra of "we can't spend, we can't spend" but all it does is give the FO more excuses to not improve the team. I don't know why this is such a controversial idea around here.

I don't know if you realize this or not, but I want the Orioles to WIN. Saying that I believe this FO isn't going to do it doesn't make me the bad guy.

MSK

MSK - did you have a fire at your house?

[MemorialStadKid]

MSK - did you have a fire at your house?

A few months back, I had a fire in my apartment here in Los Angeles. My building was a 4-unit apartment complex and the woman's apartment above mine was completely destroyed by a fire started by a cheap electric heater according to the fire report from LAFD.

I had little actual fire damage, but my unit was totally destroyed by the water from the hoses and the smoke. I lost a lot of my electronic materials, including one of my hard drives with tons of my writing and so forth on there. I luckily had saved the majority of my personal papers but I lost clothing and my other laptop.

Vatech1994 has made several extremely insensitive comments towards me about the fire and made light of it. I don't take it too personal, but it never ceases to amaze me of the lack of common dignity and human empathy people display when they feel like they're "right" about something.

I say what I feel about the team, and try to keep things cool with other posters. Do I sometimes make fun of those who blindly support AM and the FO? Yes. But its never personal, nor do I make direct assaults on a person because of their beliefs about a baseball team (of all things).

This person is emotionally challenged.

MSK

[Icterus galbula]

I say what I feel about the team, and try to keep things cool with other posters. Do I sometimes make fun of those who blindly support AM and the FO? Yes. But its never personal, nor do I make direct assaults on a person because of their beliefs about a baseball team (of all things).

No, instead you make sweeping generalizations about the board and insult those with differing viewpoints from yours as "the MacPhail Brigade," "clique," "kool-aid drinkers," and "apologists."

And face it. You lost the bet. This fire stuff is irrelevant.

[MemorialStadKid]

Why don't you provide the quotes where I made insensitive comments? Because I'm accusing you of lying and making this up like you make up lots of other stuff out of whole cloth. If I'm wrong, prove it. You can easily find the posts. Search on my name and keyword fire. You won't because you know you're lying through your teeth.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2104219&highlight=lucky#post2104219

I know about your fire. I read about your fire when it happened because you posted about it on February 1st (http://forum.orioleshangout.com/foru...highlight=fire). I'm sorry about those troubles. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

However, acting like that is why you haven't finished the bet and acting like you and LuckyJim are all copacetic is just hooey and we all know it. Would like you like me to count the numbers of posts you've made since the fire? Heck, you've devoted hours and hours to this thread alone. We all know why you haven't closed down that wager. It has nothing to do with that fire. IMO you're using the fire in this situation to try to garner sympathy, to try to make me look bad, and to obfuscate the real reason for the delay.

If you'd just hold yourself to the same standards that you hold everyone else to, I don't think you'd have a problem.

If you'd just stop crying about how persecuted you are, I don't think you'd have a problem.

But you haven't done either. Until you do one or the other, I think you'll continue to have a problem.

I don't know about you, but you are saying I am using a friggin fire as an excuse to not settle a bet I made with someone online. HUH?

I had assembled a few quotes and cut and pasted them onto a sheet of paper. I explained several times that - GASP - I have a life and I was going to finish. It did take me a while. But I will go back and finish this, if not to just shut you up for once and for all.

Another out and out lie. You CLEARLY direct stuff at specific groups. I agree that you're too cowardly to call anyone out by name most of the time, but your implication is quite clear.

I love how you give yourself a pass for misrepresenting people. You really hold yourself to quite the standard.

Calling people a liar with no proof other than your own chest thumping is just as bad as what you're accusing me of doing. Its not cowardly to say that there is a clique of people on the OH who pat themselves on the back for supporting the FO.

I don't recall putting you in that category waaaay back when I first said it, in fact, I didn't even know you were a member here. What I DO remember is you giving me crap for saying something way back when and being very disagreeable about it.

How can I have a problem with PEOPLE I HAVE NEVER MET? I don't know you folks. All I can do is read, post, reply and so on like the rest of us.

I also don't feel like getting into message board pissing matches (especially when I have made my points as clear as possible and invite quality discussion that doesn't get personal). If anything, my "attitude" came from folks taking shots at me for daring to criticize AM. And then I will defend myself until it gets silly and childish with name calling and so on.

Take that high-powered sense of self-righteousness and look in the mirror sometime man.

MSK

[PaulFolk]

Hey, remember when we used to discuss baseball? I miss that.

Enough with the personal attacks in this thread.

[Pedro Cerrano]

What's this bet?

[MemorialStadKid]

You are such a joke. YOU brought up the fire as the reason that you hadn't finished the bet. YOU DID IT right here in the post prior to my response.

Again, you're lying. You started this with your nonsense in this thread. You took a shot at folks that were trying to ignore you in peace. You're simply pissed that I called you on it.

I'm done with this now. As usual, you're full of hot air with nothing to back it up. You bring a knife to a gunfight every single time.

Earlier in this post I SAID:

If the Orioles win games, old fans will come back and new fans will be generated. It happens all the time with all kinds of professional sports teams. Apparently, the powers that be in the warehouse are content with watching the continued implosion of what was one of the greatest baseball teams in history.

The only entertainment value I get is to see people still make excuses for Andy MacPhail's lousy FA signings and unwillingness to make major moves.

While you weren't responding to me, YOU SAID:

I really wish you hadn't quoted that post from MSK. My ignore feature was working fine, but I had to see that tripe because you responded.

I know that it won't matter, but MSK is all wet as usual. Lots of the folks that MSK thinks approve of all AM moves criticized AM for the Atkins move, didn't like the Eaton decision, and were either against or lukewarm on Gonzo. Criticizing AM for signings like Atkins and thinking that we should have signed guys like Holliday or Lackey are not the same thing.

Did I really start this? You have a lousy attitude and you're full of self-righteousness. In that other post, you were making it seem like I was using the fire to deflect from my promise. I was only explaining what happened to me and how I had been distracted from that promise.

Your reading comprehension is suffering from your hate towards me dude.

You can't even remember what you posted here and your senility and/or selective memory is causing you misquote me repeatedly and rush to your half-baked conclusions by calling me a "liar."

Check yourself before you try to call out other people.

MSK

[PaulFolk]

Good to see we can't follow simple instructions. Thanks for ruining the thread, folks!