Sometimes Your Best Moves are the Ones You Don't Make

[brianod]

It's much easier for a SS to slide over to 3B than to 2B. The pivot at 2B is tricky, and inexperienced players who try to learn 2B on the fly are likely to have a learning curve. Moreover, 2B is one of the most dangerous positions to play in terms of injury potential. No way do I want Machado playing second base, this year or ever.

Yes, assuming Machado could easily play 2b is a bit naive. This isn't fantasy baseball and the transition is not easy. One chief asset of Machado is his arm. I don't want him at 2b either, not because I'm worried about injury but because I don't want his arm wasted.

[Brendan25]

This is why I made a thread and continually stated that the O's should do nothing at the deadline. I would MUCH rather have Schoop, Hoes, Avery, Delmonico, Arrieta, and others in the minor leagues fighting to come up with this squad then to have Matt Garza, Joe Blanton, and Placido Polanco on this team with no depth in the minors.

Chase Headley would have been a nice addition, but I don't think that he takes us from a wild card contender to a championship favorite.

Manny Machado has really made a huge difference on this team and made not acquiring Headley look pretty smart. I never wanted Headley.

[lovetoaster]

I never wanted Headley.

I certainly did. But I am not bothered that we did not get him. I think he would have been a great addition to the team, but apparently we thought they wanted too much, and I am fine with that. Even though some of our young arms have been disappointing to date, they still have potential and we are not deep enough in prospects where we can afford to send a few off without being comfortable with the return. We still have to think about the future.

The Padres should have asked for a lot for Headley, he is having a heck of a year. But there are a handful of teams in the pennant race that could have used a 3B/OF like Headley, and the fact that he is still in San Diego tells me they probably wanted a little too much for him. Which makes me a little more comfortable with us not making the move. All we can go by are unsubstantiated rumors regarding which players they wanted in return from us. I am not in favor or making bad deals just to get a player at a position of need, and if there was a good deal to be had, Headley would probably be playing somewhere else.

At some point, it is just not realistic, and we can't be upset that we did not make a deal that there may not have much of a legitimate chance to make in the first place.

[Mondo Trasho]

This is why I made a thread and continually stated that the O's should do nothing at the deadline. I would MUCH rather have Schoop, Hoes, Avery, Delmonico, Arrieta, and others in the minor leagues fighting to come up with this squad then to have Matt Garza, Joe Blanton, and Placido Polanco on this team with no depth in the minors.

Chase Headley would have been a nice addition, but I don't think that he takes us from a wild card contender to a championship favorite.

Manny Machado has really made a huge difference on this team and made not acquiring Headley look pretty smart. I never wanted Headley.

I agree. Everyone was all caught up in the "should we be buyers or sellers" debate. I always thought we didn't have much to sell and buying just didn't make any sense unless it was somebody incredibly cheap and worthwhile.

[Babypowder]

It's much easier for a SS to slide over to 3B than to 2B. The pivot at 2B is tricky, and inexperienced players who try to learn 2B on the fly are likely to have a learning curve. Moreover, 2B is one of the most dangerous positions to play in terms of injury potential. No way do I want Machado playing second base, this year or ever.

So we're clear, you would rather have Machado at 3rd and Qunintanilla at second than Headley and Machado? You think the first one makes us a better team?

[Babypowder]

Yes, assuming Machado could easily play 2b is a bit naive. This isn't fantasy baseball and the transition is not easy. One chief asset of Machado is his arm. I don't want him at 2b either, not because I'm worried about injury but because I don't want his arm wasted.

All I'm saying is I'd rather have Headley/Machado over Machado/Quintanilla. I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.

[Dipper9]

So we're clear, you would rather have Machado at 3rd and Qunintanilla at second than Headley and Machado? You think the first one makes us a better team?

You're missing the point....Machado would not have been brought up to play second base. So its Manny and Q plus Arrieta, Matusz, etc, or Headly and Q minus those guys in our system. You can't just go putting people wherever you want to play them.

[lovetoaster]

All I'm saying is I'd rather have Headley/Machado over Machado/Quintanilla. I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.

I certainly don't disgaree. But that is not how it would have happened, and Headley would have had a pricetag attached. It would have been Headley (minus what it took to trade for him)/Q or Machado/Q.

Edit: Sorry Dip...Apparently I said the same thing you did above me, just not as well as you did.

[Brendan25]

So we're clear, you would rather have Machado at 3rd and Qunintanilla at second than Headley and Machado? You think the first one makes us a better team?

You're missing the point....Machado would not have been brought up to play second base. So its Manny and Q plus Arrieta, Matusz, etc, or Headly and Q minus those guys in our system. You can't just go putting people wherever you want to play them.

What dip said, the O's would not have put Headley nor Machado at second.

[Aglets]

Figured I might as well add in my two pennies.

I was thinking hard about the deal when I first saw it, leaning towards pulling the trigger (Headley for Jake and Brian).

Now I am even more in favor of it, for hopefully obvious reasons. Both by how well Headley is playing, and by how far Arrieta and Matusz have fallen in my eyes.

Headley/Hardy/Q helps us win more games in 2012 than Machado/Hardy/Q in my opinion.

Not that I am terribly upset with how it went down, cuz like I said, i thought it was a tough decision at the time. And I certainly am thrilled to see that Machado can play at this level at the age of 20. I just would have done it differently.

[SrMeowMeow]

You're missing the point....Machado would not have been brought up to play second base. So its Manny and Q plus Arrieta, Matusz, etc, or Headly and Q minus those guys in our system. You can't just go putting people wherever you want to play them.

This "Headley and Q or Manny and Q" is a real, according-to-Hoyle strawman. First, Machado is already playing out of position at 3B. Second base is not some Rubix cube brain teaser. For example, Andino and Q were both...shortstops. Maybe the O's wouldn't have had Manny play 2B, maybe they would have.

Regardless, the real problem is that it's not a Manny or Headley choice. Headley can play LF, or he could DH. Hardy could play 2B. Whatever. They are both versatile players. Stop acting like trading for Headley comes at Machado's expense. It's a falsehood.

[Dipper9]

This "Headley and Q or Manny and Q" is a real, according-to-Hoyle strawman. First, Machado is already playing out of position at 3B. Second base is not some Rubix cube brain teaser. For example, Andino and Q were both...shortstops. Maybe the O's wouldn't have had Manny play 2B, maybe they would have.

Regardless, the real problem is that it's not a Manny or Headley choice. Headley can play LF, or he could DH. Hardy could play 2B. Whatever. They are both versatile players. Stop acting like trading for Headley comes at Machado's expense. It's a falsehood.

Okay, fine. Reality then. The Orioles are 12 and 7 thus far in August, ie, post trade deadline. How much better would they possibly be with Headley on this team?

[lovetoaster]

Regardless, the real problem is that it's not a Manny or Headley choice. Headley can play LF, or he could DH. Hardy could play 2B. Whatever. They are both versatile players. Stop acting like trading for Headley comes at Machado's expense. It's a falsehood.

That's fine, but my biggest problem with the premise is that Headley was not free. Even if what was rumored was indeed what San Diego wanted, I don't know if I would have made the deal. Arrietta and Matusz have been disappointments this year, but they are still young and have potential and we don't have a lot of pitching depth in the organization, especially at a high level. We may have been filling a hole while creating another one.

Some people here act like we could have had Headley here if we asked nicely for him, and I don't really know if I even trust the rumors about what they wanted for him. He may have just been simply unattainable. It happens.

[SrMeowMeow]

Okay, fine. Reality then. The Orioles are 12 and 7 thus far in August, ie, post trade deadline. How much better would they possibly be with Headley on this team?

If we're using perfect hindsight and Headley produces the same way? I don't know, maybe between .5-1 wins better? Depends on who you replace. And if that sounds trivial, it's not. It's huge.

[SrMeowMeow]

That's fine, but my biggest problem with the premise is that Headley was not free. Even if what was rumored was indeed what San Diego wanted, I don't know if I would have made the deal. Arrietta and Matusz have been disappointments this year, but they are still young and have potential and we don't have a lot of pitching depth in the organization, especially at a high level. We may have been filling a hole while creating another one.

Some people here act like we could have had Headley here if we asked nicely for him, and I don't really know if I even trust the rumors about what they wanted for him. He may have just been simply unattainable. It happens.

Nobody is acting like that.