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Sometimes Your Best Moves are the Ones You Don't Make

brianod

By brianod
in Orioles Talk

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lovetoaster Veteran All-Star

lovetoaster

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Nobody is acting like that.

Obviously I am being hyperbolic, but there would have been a relatively significant price involved and I think some people are ignoring that. If there wasn't, he would be playing elsewhere. Maybe in Baltimore, but maybe in some of the other cities that needed a guy like that. We were certainly not the only ones. Yet he is still in San Diego.

I like Headley a lot, and he would have been a great fit in our lineup. But I question whether there was ever a legitimate chance to make a deal. Therefore I can't assign fault to the front office.

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SrMeowMeow Hangout Grand Counsel

SrMeowMeow

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Obviously I am being hyperbolic, but there would have been a relatively significant price involved and I think some people are ignoring that. If there wasn't, he would be playing elsewhere. Maybe in Baltimore, but maybe in some of the other cities that needed a guy like that. We were certainly not the only ones. Yet he is still in San Diego.

I like Headley a lot, and he would have been a great fit in our lineup. But I question whether there was ever a legitimate chance to make a deal. Therefore I can't assign fault to the front office.

Honestly, I don't know any pro-Headley person who isn't prefacing their position with "I would have been fine with the rumored price (of Arrieta and Matusz)." And if it turns out the price was Machado and Bundy, again, no pro-Headley person would still want him. So right now we just talk about what we know, or think we know.

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lovetoaster Veteran All-Star

lovetoaster

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Honestly, I don't know any pro-Headley person who isn't prefacing their position with "I would have been fine with the rumored price (of Arrieta and Matusz)." And if it turns out the price was Machado and Bundy, again, no pro-Headley person would still want him. So right now we just talk about what we know, or think we know.

I am certainly pro-Headley, but (and I am sorry for repeating myself) the fact that he is still playing in lovely San Diego leads me to believe that they might not have wanted to move him in the first place.

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Babypowder Hangout Veteran Council

Babypowder

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I am certainly pro-Headley, but (and I am sorry for repeating myself) the fact that he is still playing in lovely San Diego leads me to believe that they might not have wanted to move him in the first place.

The rumor from roch was that San Diego wanted Arrieta and Matusz for him. That's the rumor we are going off of here.

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SrMeowMeow Hangout Grand Counsel

SrMeowMeow

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I am certainly pro-Headley, but (and I am sorry for repeating myself) the fact that he is still playing in lovely San Diego leads me to believe that they might not have wanted to move him in the first place.
The rumor from roch was that San Diego wanted Arrieta and Matusz for him. That's the rumor we are going off of here.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion, since the opposite is equally plausible: that we weren't willing to pay the asking price of Arrieta and Matusz. And that's the only rumor I've actually heard (from Roch).

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lovetoaster Veteran All-Star

lovetoaster

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The rumor from roch was that San Diego wanted Arrieta and Matusz for him. That's the rumor we are going off of here.

I understand that, but even if we decided to not to make that deal, there was not another team that could have made a similar proposal? It was not just us that could have really used a player like that.

1. I don't take the rumor as gospel and 2. I just don't know if they ever wanted to trade him.

Anyways, I have to get back to work and I am just repeating myself at this point. I just don't know if there was a deal there to be made, so I can't really fault the FO.

I am just happy that it is late August and football does not matter to me. It has been a while and it is a nice feeling.

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SrMeowMeow Hangout Grand Counsel

SrMeowMeow

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The other aspect of a Headley trade is the years we would have him. Is two years of Headley worth Jake, Matusz and Hoes? Headley is easily better then Machado now but will he be in 2 years time?

Again, it's not Headley vs Machado. The bolded is a totally legitimate question. I think the value would be very close, especially with Hoes in there. But Headley vs Machado is a strawman.

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Ven6 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Ven6

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Again, it's not Headley vs Machado.

I know this keeps coming up, but for 2012 it very much is. There is no way Manny comes up if we have Headley. It's not that there couldn't be a position for him, it's that DD and Buck wouldn't have the need. That is key. They went to MM out of need (defensive 3b, mostly), and an evaluation that it wouldn't hurt his development.

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brianod All-Star

brianod

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Again, it's not Headley vs Machado. The bolded is a totally legitimate question. I think the value would be very close, especially with Hoes in there. But Headley vs Machado is a strawman.

You are assuming that Machado can play 2nd and you don't have any proof of this. Because some players can play both positions, it doesn't follow that all players can and it certainly doesn't follow that Machado could play 2nd immediately. The comparison is apt because if you had Headley, Machado woulod be in the minors, not playing 2b for the major league team

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SrMeowMeow Hangout Grand Counsel

SrMeowMeow

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I know this keeps coming up, but for 2012 it very much is. There is no way Manny comes up if we have Headley. It's not that there couldn't be a position for him, it's that DD and Buck wouldn't have the need. That is key. They went to MM out of need (defensive 3b, mostly), and an evaluation that it wouldn't hurt his development.

I'm not gonna do this all again, but if you think we can't find a spot for an athletic, versatile 800+ OPS bat in the lineup even with Manny at 3rd, you're nuts.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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Joe Blanton is 0-3 with a 7.71 ERA and a 1.76 WHIP since joining the Dodgers.

In his first outing after being acquired by the Yankees, Derek Lowe pitched 4 innings of 2-hit, shutout ball to secure a win.

In his last 2 outings, he has pitched 3 innings, given up 7 hits, a walk, and 2 runs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=lowede01&t=p&year=2012

More significantly, his numbers overall for the last 3 years had been severely declining, as were his numbers in this season alone after a nice start in the first 2 months of the year:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lowede01.shtml

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zero1 AAA

zero1

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Matusz is now being turned into a reliever. Arrieta has been bad in AAA. Headley would be the 2nd best player on the team if they would have traded for him.

This team would be much better with Headley on it regardless of what position he played.

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