Duquette, "Our best players are going to come up through the farm system."

[Brendan25]

Why so? Being extended early should be more enticing to a catcher in a injury prone position. Plus' date=' many catchers play beyound 30.[/quote']

They do but they don't get paid a lot for it. The extension for Wieters would have to be much different because if the extension lasted it would be Wieters one big contract. Longo could have still got paid a huge deal at age 30.

[Stotle]

A catcher is a different situation.

Victor Martinez

4 years/$50M (2011-14)(signed at age 32)

signed by Detroit as a free agent 11/24/10

11:$12M, 12:$13M, 13:$13M, 14:$12M

[Brendan25]

Victor Martinez

4 years/$50M (2011-14)(signed at age 32)

signed by Detroit as a free agent 11/24/10

11:$12M, 12:$13M, 13:$13M, 14:$12M

One example. And I bet they'd take it back if they could.

And Martinez is a different type of catcher. He could DH and still have high value. Wieters would not.

[Stotle]

What would be the requirements for the vesting option?

Probably games played over previous three years, or something along those lines. Or just guarantee the money the first two years with buyouts. Would also add bonuses in for AS appearances, gold gloves, etc.This isn't rocket science. Do you really think there isn't a reasonable deal to be worked out?

Ask Posey his thoughts on this type of deal the night after he had his knee blown up.

[EddieO'sSC]

They do but they don't get paid a lot for it. The extension for Wieters would have to be much different because if the extension lasted it would be Wieters one big contract. Longo could have still got paid a huge deal at age 30.

I would say it depends on some variables. If their bat warrants it, they can get a decent deal to DH.

[Brendan25]

Probably games played over previous three years, or something along those lines. Or just guarantee the money the first two years with buyouts. Would also add bonuses in for AS appearances, gold gloves, etc.This isn't rocket science. Do you really think there isn't a reasonable deal to be worked out?

Ask Posey his thoughts on this type of deal the night after he had his knee blown up.

And I could REALLY be missing it, but what benefit does your deal have over what we may give him in a year? You think he gets piad more then 15 mil per?

[Brendan25]

I would say it depends on some variables. If their bat warrants it' date=' they can get a decent deal to DH.[/quote']

Does Matts bat warrant it?

[Stotle]

One example. And I bet they'd take it back if they could.

And Martinez is a different type of catcher. He could DH and still have high value. Wieters would not.

I'm almost done with this. Do you really believe what you are typing?

Let's tackle this another way.

Joe Mauer c

8 years/$184M (2011-18) (signed at the magical age of 28, which you believe Wieters would hold very dear)

Seeing how this contract has played out thus far, and seeing as how Detroit (in your opinion) would not give VMart $50MM if given the chance again, what kind of deal can Wieters realistically hope for as a high injury risk catcher two years away from being (gasp) 30?

Turn it again. Mauer coming off the year he had, playing a lot of first base, what kind of contract could he get this offseason? He's 30. Would he not be able to get a $60-100MM deal? He was worth 4 wins, or approximately $20-22MM last year.

[EddieO'sSC]

Does Matts bat warrant it?

I would have to say no! Thats the point. There is risk involved for both parties. Matt taking the early extension, could have averted some of his risk.

[Brendan25]

I'm almost done with this. Do you really believe what you are typing?

Let's tackle this another way.

Joe Mauer c

8 years/$184M (2011-18) (signed at the magical age of 28, which you believe Wieters would hold very dear)

Seeing how this contract has played out thus far, and seeing as how Detroit (in your opinion) would not give VMart $50MM if given the chance again, what kind of deal can Wieters realistically hope for as a high injury risk catcher two years away from being (gasp) 30?

Turn it again. Mauer coming off the year he had, playing a lot of first base, what kind of contract could he get this offseason? He's 30. Would he not be able to get a $60-100MM deal? He was worth 4 wins, or approximately $20-22MM last year.

Again, you're comparing Joe Mauer and Victor Martinez who can DH and play 1B and still have a ton of value becaus of their bat to Matt Wieters who has a career OBP of .328. When Wieters knees go, so does his value. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. Could Mauer get a 60-100M deal? Yeah because he can hit as a DH. Does Matts BAT get him that deal?

[Stotle]

And I could REALLY be missing it, but what benefit does your deal have over what we may give him in a year? You think he gets piad more then 15 mil per?

The money/structure of the options/guarantees would need to be adjusted to make the risk work for both sides. Getting bogged down in the details of terms of vestiture, specific amounts in the fifth year, etc. is stupid. No offense, but it's a really basic concept. You are asking me to jump through hoops so that you can shoot down machinations I come up with, but the specifics are not important. It's the concept of guaranteeing really good money early, while the player is years and years away from any significant payday and has no leverage.

If your point is "there's a chance Wieters wouldn't agree," then fine. I think it's a really silly argument to make, but you're welcome to it. My point is that this is what Tampa has done to lock up impact talent. Nothing is stopping Baltimore from doing the same thing with the right players, aside from the vague "special circumstances" of which I am still not clear.

[Brendan25]

The money/structure of the options/guarantees would need to be adjusted to make the risk work for both sides. Getting bogged down in the details of terms of vestiture, specific amounts in the fifth year, etc. is stupid. No offense, but it's a really basic concept. You are asking me to jump through hoops so that you can shoot down machinations I come up with, but the specifics are not important. It's the concept of guaranteeing really good money early, while the player is years and years away from any significant payday and has no leverage.

If your point is "there's a chance Wieters wouldn't agree," then fine. I think it's a really silly argument to make, but you're welcome to it. My point is that this is what Tampa has done to lock up impact talent. Nothing is stopping Baltimore from doing the same thing with the right players, aside from the vague "special circumstances" of which I am still not clear.

Whats stopping them is the players not agreeing to it. Period. Sure they could offer. If you want to be mad they didn't offer then I guess you can. But Matt would not make the deal.

[EddieO'sSC]

Again, you're comparing Joe Mauer and Victor Martinez who can DH and play 1B and still have a ton of value becaus of their bat to Matt Wieters who has a career OBP of .328. When Wieters knees go, so does his value. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. Could Mauer get a 60-100M deal? Yeah because he can hit as a DH. Does Matts BAT get him that deal?

We have the hindsight to know that now. At the time Matt had been raking in colleage and the minors.

[Stotle]

Again, you're comparing Joe Mauer and Victor Martinez who can DH and play 1B and still have a ton of value becaus of their bat to Matt Wieters who has a career OBP of .328. When Wieters knees go, so does his value. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. Could Mauer get a 60-100M deal? Yeah because he can hit as a DH. Does Matts BAT get him that deal?

I give up. If you believe what you are writing than you believe Baltimore should let Wieters walk at the end of his contract and, at that time, no team is going to give him a big deal anyway.

I could get into the "info available at time of contract" side of the discussion, but honestly I think my head would explode...

[Brendan25]

We have the hindsight to know that now. At the time Matt had been raking in colleage and the minors.

That's very true. Good point.