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TT: Showalter should be leery on how he uses Johnson


Tony-OH

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The broader constraint that Buck is also working under is the generally overworked bullpen caused by the ineffective and inefficient starting pitching. Add to that the more inconsistent play of many of the relievers compared to last year (e.g. Matusz, O’Day, Patton) and I think that really limits your options for creatively using the pen. If you start using Hunter as an alternative closer how much can’t you use him in other situations? Like when Tillman pitches us to a 1-1 tie but only goes 5 and two thirds?

The Orioles starters average 5.7 inning per start and league average is 5.9. That's about a batter extra that the Orioles bullpen has to get out vs the AL average.

Rest of AL East:

Bos: 6.0

NYY: 6.0

TBR: 5.9

BAL: 5.7

Tor: 5.5

Buck has actually done a decent job of extending out some of his starters despite the fact that they allow almost 1/2 run (4.70) more than league average (4.35) per start. Either way, the Orioles bullpen is no more taxed than most bullpens in the AL, and no more than a batter more than anyone else in the AL East.

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Yes I think now is a better time to trade. The reason being is because I have a bad feeling he is going to completely collapse in the second half.

I think the return would have been significantly higher during the offseason. It also would have left the O's in a better situation to recover from the loss.

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Gregg also hasn't thrown a pitch that's mattered this year. It's easier to close for a crappy team with no chance.

It's the Erik Bedard thing. Lights out on a bad team.

Not arguing with you about JJ though, just not a Kevin Gregg fan.

I don't like Gregg either, that is why I am using him as an example.

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The Orioles starters average 5.7 inning per start and league average is 5.9. That's about a batter extra that the Orioles bullpen has to get out vs the AL average.

Rest of AL East:

Bos: 6.0

NYY: 6.0

TBR: 5.9

BAL: 5.7

Tor: 5.5

Buck has actually done a decent job of extending out some of his starters despite the fact that they allow almost 1/2 run (4.70) more than league average (4.35) per start. Either way, the Orioles bullpen is no more taxed than most bullpens in the AL, and no more than a batter more than anyone else in the AL East.

Interesting info. Do you think that the number of days pitched (or consecutive days pitched) is a better indicator of individual reliever workload than total innings? And if so is there a way to minimize days worked/pitcher across an entire staff? Based on my very imperfect memory I seem to recall Buck more frequently using Patton and Matusz for multiple innings last year.

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Interesting info. Do you think that the number of days pitched (or consecutive days pitched) is a better indicator of individual reliever workload than total innings? And if so is there a way to minimize days worked/pitcher across an entire staff? Based on my very imperfect memory I seem to recall Buck more frequently using Patton and Matusz for multiple innings last year.

I think each pitcher is different and the only way to truly indicate that use is by looking at their performance in those situations.

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I think the return would have been significantly higher during the offseason. It also would have left the O's in a better situation to recover from the loss.

Any chance they could get a good starter and stud 2nd basemen for Johnson?

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Any chance they could get a good starter and stud 2nd basemen for Johnson?

Now?

No way in the world.

Last offseason? I don't know what type of interest the Tigers might have had, they like high K rates. I was in favor of JJ and JJ for Porcello and Castellanos.

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Jim Johnson has 27 saves this season which is great but a lot of them come of the 2 and 3 run variety. Jim has been way over used in the first half of the season. He has given up 33 hits to only 29 ks. we all know he is a pitch to contact pitcher which is not great for a closer. He threw 23 pitches on Tuesday night and only 12 for strikes and almost blew a 3 run save. he should not even have been available last night. 23 pitches is a lot for a closer, especially one used as much as Jim Johnson is. Tommy Hunter was ready and should have been brought in last night to try to close the game out. Joe Madden does not have that closer must close game mentality. Buck has to know that Johnson has been over used this year. I would like to see Tommy Hunter get some shots on days after Jim is used to keep him more fresh. Just a thought.

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Why was he fine last season on 0 days rest?

Also, today, he had a bad start by walking Brantley, but Giambi's double was semi catchable, and then he induced 2 ground balls that could have been double play balls or force-outs at home.

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Why was he fine last season on 0 days rest?

Also, today, he had a bad start by walking Brantley, but Giambi's double was semi catchable, and then he induced 2 ground balls that could have been double play balls or force-outs at home.

Why are relief pitchers traditionally inconsistent from one year to the next? You use a relief pitcher by this season's performance, not by the past.

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Why are relief pitchers traditionally inconsistent from one year to the next? You use a relief pitcher by this season's performance, not by the past.

Look at Jose Valverde, a decent closer who had 275 saves in nine years prior to this season.

The pressure has to get to you at some point, you really have to have the right mental makeup to be a closer.

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Jim Johnson has 27 saves this season which is great but a lot of them come of the 2 and 3 run variety. Jim has been way over used in the first half of the season. He has given up 33 hits to only 29 ks. we all know he is a pitch to contact pitcher which is not great for a closer. He threw 23 pitches on Tuesday night and only 12 for strikes and almost blew a 3 run save. he should not even have been available last night. 23 pitches is a lot for a closer, especially one used as much as Jim Johnson is. Tommy Hunter was ready and should have been brought in last night to try to close the game out. Joe Madden does not have that closer must close game mentality. Buck has to know that Johnson has been over used this year. I would like to see Tommy Hunter get some shots on days after Jim is used to keep him more fresh. Just a thought.

I don't that's true. This year Rodney has 16 of the 18 saves for the Rays and 48 out of the 50 saves for the Rays last year. That certainly looks like Maddon uses a closer must save a close game mentality. In fact, I'm not sure there is a manager in baseball who doesn't use a closer like this. The main problem was that Buck needs to stop using JJ three days in a row, especially if that third day is a one-run save opportunity.

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Look at Jose Valverde, a decent closer who had 275 saves in nine years prior to this season.

The pressure has to get to you at some point, you really have to have the right mental makeup to be a closer.

I don't think pressure got to Velverde. I think he's a guy who went through a rough patch and who lost the feel a bit for his splitter. I'd take him over Strop in my bullpen right now.

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