Schmuck: Angelos back in Warehouse and in Duquette's old office!

[Going Underground]

I have been refraining from posting on weekdays unless there is specific news that is worthy of comment, but I can't hold my tongue here.

To me, the Angelos-bashing and Duquette-bashing is out of control and premature. It's December 5. The Winter Meetings haven't even taken place yet. Duquette has publicly stated that the money saved by trading Jim Johnson will be spent on other players, and that this year's payroll budget will be higher than last years. Duquette hasn't telegraphed how much higher his budget will be. Last year, the O's payroll increased about $18 mm from the year before (going by year-end numbers, not Opening Day payroll).

I will be just as unhappy as anyone else if the O's don't have a significant payroll increase, and more importantly, acquire players who I feel put the team in position to be better than they were in 2013. But I just don't see why everyone is so hysterical right now. There are plenty of good players -- some who will be expensive, some who are not as expensive but who can still improve our team -- who are on the board. The next three weeks are usually the busiest transaction weeks of the year. I just don't see why so many posters are just assuming that the O's won't make significant moves to improve the team, and are criticizing the payroll limitations when we have no idea what the payroll is going to look like by the time the offseason is over.

But I do have two things to say about the payroll. First, I seriously doubt that all teams, or most teams, are going to spend all of the extra $27 mm in TV money on payroll this offseason. The reason is simple: that's too many dollars chasing a limited pool of players. The players who are available on the free agent market simply aren't worth the amount of money that's available to pay them. Maybe in 3-4 years, the average payroll will be up by $27 mm, but it's not going to happen in one offseason.

The second thing I have to say is that I'm continually amazed at the assumptions people have about how much money is available from MASN. The truth is, we have very little visibility into that. Earlier this offseason, there was an article that attributed to SNL Kagan (a media consulting firm) the statement that MASN was expected to have $146 mm in revenues and $29 mm in cash flow this year. Cash flow is not the same thing as profit, but it gives a good idea of the cash the company has that theoretically, would be available to distribute to the shareholders. So, it's my assumption that, if the owners of MASN so chose, they could dividend out that $29 mm ($25 mm to the Orioles, $4 mm to the Nats) and still have enough resources within MASN to run that company. But, there also are at least two reasons why that money might be left within MASN: (1) to fund expansion of MASN's operations or invest in its infrastructure, and (2) to avoid having to share some of that revenue with the other 28 teams in MLB through their revenue-sharing procedures. The bottom line is there is way too much we don't know about MASN's finances to really get a fix on whether Angelos is hoarding money, and of so, exactly how much. But in my opinion, it's probably not quite the giant cash cow that some people seem to think it is.

Putting MASN to one side, the Orioles' gross revenues were $206 mm in 2012 according to Forbes. That's $19 mm less than the Nats, $32 mm less that the Tigers, $33 mm less than the Cardinals.

I don't want to come off as an Angelos defender, I am simply saying that it is too soon in the offseason to jump to conclusions, and we should await the results of the full offseason before making any judgments.

Just something I posted before ,in case anyone missed it. Happy Hanukkah,Frobby.

But there are two areas for potential growth. Although the Nationals? standoff with MASN and the Baltimore Orioles, who own the majority stake in the regional sports network, continues, the Nationals? media rights and the valuation of their stake in the network don?t appear to be wholly damaging to their bottom line. The Nationals, however, have argued that they are a top 10 market and should be paid as such in terms of media rights, and there is obviously more money available. The Orioles, as a team, are valued at only $514 million, 20th in the majors, but they are propped up by their controlling stake in MASN, which is valued at $492 million, the fourth largest amount in baseball. As a result, they are valued higher than the Nationals at $1.12 billion, good for the seventh highest in baseball.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2013/10/23/nationals-valued-at-830-million-by-bloomberg-ranked-13th/

[weams]

Just something I posted before ,in case anyone missed it. Happy Hanukkah,Frobby.

But there are two areas for potential growth. Although the Nationals? standoff with MASN and the Baltimore Orioles, who own the majority stake in the regional sports network, continues, the Nationals? media rights and the valuation of their stake in the network don?t appear to be wholly damaging to their bottom line. The Nationals, however, have argued that they are a top 10 market and should be paid as such in terms of media rights, and there is obviously more money available. The Orioles, as a team, are valued at only $514 million, 20th in the majors, but they are propped up by their controlling stake in MASN, which is valued at $492 million, the fourth largest amount in baseball. As a result, they are valued higher than the Nationals at $1.12 billion, good for the seventh highest in baseball.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2013/10/23/nationals-valued-at-830-million-by-bloomberg-ranked-13th/

Send them back to Montreal and see how much they are worth. I am fearful of Angelos leaving. The Nationals are going to try and undo all the protections that were negotiated into that deal to put them there.

[Going Underground]

Send them back to Montreal and see how much they are worth. I am fearful of Angelos leaving. The Nationals are going to try and undo all the protections that were negotiated into that deal to put them there.

Me too. I know baseball was talking about contracting two teams. They were talking about the Florida teams. I guess they can contract one Florida team and the Orioles. Angelos said yesterday,he can't compete with the Yankees. He would try to put together the best possible team in a limited market. What other owner talks like this?

[clapdiddy]

Me too. I know baseball was talking about contracting two teams. They were talking about the Florida teams. I guess they can contract one Florida team and the Orioles. Angelos said yesterday,he can't compete with the Yankees. He would try to put together the best possible team in a limited market. What other owner talks like this?

Going from not being able to compete with the Yankees to contraction is a bit of a stretch. We still have one of the best ballparks and still put enough fannies in the seats when the team is competitive.

I think if MLB decides they want to give the Nats more dollars from MASN, they will have went against their word. Angelos knew that having a team in DC would not be good for the attendance of his team. The whole reason he negotiated it the way he did was to keep the Orioles viable and not to be an also-ran every year. If they somehow get screwed in that deal, he should sue...which he is pretty adept at doing!

[weams]

Going from not being able to compete with the Yankees to contraction is a bit of a stretch. We still have one of the best ballparks and still put enough fannies in the seats when the team is competitive.

I think if MLB decides they want to give the Nats more dollars from MASN, they will have went against their word. Angelos knew that having a team in DC would not be good for the attendance of his team. The whole reason he negotiated it the way he did was to keep the Orioles viable and not to be an also-ran every year. If they somehow get screwed in that deal, he should sue...which he is pretty adept at doing!

As long as he is still around to do so. The Lerners are getting quite audacious after buying part of a franchise. They other part was never theirs and they should never get it.

[Redskins Rick]

So you don't care that he received $27 million in MLB TV revenue that he never had before, got Roberts' $10 million off the book and now salary dumped a $10 million reliever (who I agree wasn't worth it and I was fine with the trade as long as the money goes back into the team). I really don't understand that line or reasoning honestly. It's easy to see why people dislike how Angelos refuses to invest the MASN and MLB TV money back into the team. The MASN deal was done specifically to make the Orioles able to compete with the big boys, but instead the Orioles have stayed where they are and Angelos is buying million dollar office buildings across for his church so he has a place to park.

Count me as one of the fans that is not happy that we remain a low-middle of the pack team despite a revenue stream that indicates we should be spending more. Answer me this, why can the Nationals outspend us by so much?

Simple, they are reallocating their money from the franchise back into the team, and using their other businesses to make money.

[raypetty]

...and PA should do the same by putting his back into the team.

[weams]

Simple, they are reallocating their money from the franchise back into the team, and using their other businesses to make money.

Or subsidizing a product to drive a competitor out of the market. Either one. They may be the Lovely caring billionaires or the ones that assembled that mountain of real estate. Either one.

[TiredofLosing20]

I have been refraining from posting on weekdays unless there is specific news that is worthy of comment, but I can't hold my tongue here.

To me, the Angelos-bashing and Duquette-bashing is out of control and premature. It's December 5. The Winter Meetings haven't even taken place yet. Duquette has publicly stated that the money saved by trading Jim Johnson will be spent on other players, and that this year's payroll budget will be higher than last years. Duquette hasn't telegraphed how much higher his budget will be. Last year, the O's payroll increased about $18 mm from the year before (going by year-end numbers, not Opening Day payroll).

I will be just as unhappy as anyone else if the O's don't have a significant payroll increase, and more importantly, acquire players who I feel put the team in position to be better than they were in 2013. But I just don't see why everyone is so hysterical right now. There are plenty of good players -- some who will be expensive, some who are not as expensive but who can still improve our team -- who are on the board. The next three weeks are usually the busiest transaction weeks of the year. I just don't see why so many posters are just assuming that the O's won't make significant moves to improve the team, and are criticizing the payroll limitations when we have no idea what the payroll is going to look like by the time the offseason is over.

But I do have two things to say about the payroll. First, I seriously doubt that all teams, or most teams, are going to spend all of the extra $27 mm in TV money on payroll this offseason. The reason is simple: that's too many dollars chasing a limited pool of players. The players who are available on the free agent market simply aren't worth the amount of money that's available to pay them. Maybe in 3-4 years, the average payroll will be up by $27 mm, but it's not going to happen in one offseason.

The second thing I have to say is that I'm continually amazed at the assumptions people have about how much money is available from MASN. The truth is, we have very little visibility into that. Earlier this offseason, there was an article that attributed to SNL Kagan (a media consulting firm) the statement that MASN was expected to have $146 mm in revenues and $29 mm in cash flow this year. Cash flow is not the same thing as profit, but it gives a good idea of the cash the company has that theoretically, would be available to distribute to the shareholders. So, it's my assumption that, if the owners of MASN so chose, they could dividend out that $29 mm ($25 mm to the Orioles, $4 mm to the Nats) and still have enough resources within MASN to run that company. But, there also are at least two reasons why that money might be left within MASN: (1) to fund expansion of MASN's operations or invest in its infrastructure, and (2) to avoid having to share some of that revenue with the other 28 teams in MLB through their revenue-sharing procedures. The bottom line is there is way too much we don't know about MASN's finances to really get a fix on whether Angelos is hoarding money, and of so, exactly how much. But in my opinion, it's probably not quite the giant cash cow that some people seem to think it is.

Putting MASN to one side, the Orioles' gross revenues were $206 mm in 2012 according to Forbes. That's $19 mm less than the Nats, $32 mm less that the Tigers, $33 mm less than the Cardinals.

I don't want to come off as an Angelos defender, I am simply saying that it is too soon in the offseason to jump to conclusions, and we should await the results of the full offseason before making any judgments.

Thank you Frobby for a snapshot of sanity.... I think what has happened with the new influx of money is that it has created a terribly inefficient market. Maybe a better strategy is to smartly acquire players at contracts that resemble something along the value they bring. I want them to make smart decisions not mandated ones. Of course, I will be disappointed if they go to spring training with a team that I perceive to be unimproved, and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if that is what happens. But like you (and many others here) I am willing to wait to see what happens.

I may be wrong but I don't think I have seen a player signed that I thought was a good fit at a contract that is remotely palatable. I would have liked Ellsbury but not at 7/153. I may have signed Mujica at his salary, but there are better options out there. At the end of the offseason, we really need to see where the players we like end up and for what cost. Only then should the offseason be judged IMO.

[DrungoHazewood]

Send them back to Montreal and see how much they are worth. I am fearful of Angelos leaving. The Nationals are going to try and undo all the protections that were negotiated into that deal to put them there.

Of course it depends on who a new owner is, but there are plenty of possibilities where I would rather have a new owner without MASN being rigged in our favor than the current situation with Angelos.

[TonySoprano]

I think what has happened with the new influx of money is that it has created a terribly inefficient market.

I don't think that the "terribly inefficient market" will resolve itself after this offseason. The money is out there, sooner or later most, but not all, teams will spend it in 2014, 2015...

[Redskins Rick]

I wonder how Houston fans are dealing with their $29m payroll and the new money coming in.

[TiredofLosing20]

I don't think that the "terribly inefficient market" will resolve itself after this offseason. The money is out there, sooner or later most, but not all, teams will spend it in 2014, 2015...

Agreed, but I think this offseason will be the worst. I think we have seen a little of that with Oakland and the Twins. I think the impact will lessen over the next few years.

[Going Underground]

I wonder how Houston fans are dealing with their $29m payroll and the new money coming in.

They are rebuilding and did get Dexter Fowler.

Astros GM Jeff Luhnow told reporters, including MLB.com's Brian McTaggart, that he'll likely have "another deal or two" done with regards to pitching by this time next week.

[Dipper9]

Of course it depends on who a new owner is, but there are plenty of possibilities where I would rather have a new owner without MASN being rigged in our favor than the current situation with Angelos.

I've been down on the Orioles this past week, but I still stand by my opinion that we need to be wary of the devil we don't know. For all of Angelos' faults, he HAS fought hard to maintain the Orioles value and to make assurances that the Nats couldn't force us out of town. Who knows what a new owner will bring to the table, and how hard he (or she) will fight to make sure the BALTIMORE Orioles remain for the next generation.