Hardball Times: Tommy John

[Tryptamine]

Has no one read Dr. Andrews paper that he put out in the last year? He pinned the TJS epidemic nearly entirely on childhood arm abuse. Kids are throwing all year with no breaks. Once Junior High baseball is over, they go into traveling baseball; once that is over they go into club baseball etc. Kids never give their arms a chance to heal. In some cases you can't blame them. If they skip showcases or clubs they miss out on national exposure which hurts them in the draft and with scholarships. One solution that has been suggested is only allowing kids to pitch for either school or club, not both. However, this type of thing would require school and club coaches to work together and more times than not they're both out for themselves and their teams. Long story short, even if by some miracle kid's baseball was reformed today, those kids who are already in high school have likely put their arms through so much abuse that we wouldn't see a noticeable improvement for 5+ years in MLB.

[zweem]

It's the velocity. The ligaments and tendons can't handle the strain. Throwing a ball is an inherently unsafe endeavor.

Disagree----it's the torque applied---hitters can handle velocity.

We threw way more years ago--fought arm fatigue without knowing what it was--but had far,

far less structural damage issues.

[Crazysilver03]

It's the velocity. The ligaments and tendons can't handle the strain. Throwing a ball is an inherently unsafe endeavor.

This. If you want to stop TJS just stopping having people do something so unnatural.

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[weams]

This. If you want to stop TJS just stopping having people do something so unnatural.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

I quess we could go to a tee ball approach. Or make everyone pitch like Darren O'Day.

[UpstateNYfan]

Has no one read Dr. Andrews paper that he put out in the last year? He pinned the TJS epidemic nearly entirely on childhood arm abuse. Kids are throwing all year with no breaks. Once Junior High baseball is over, they go into traveling baseball; once that is over they go into club baseball etc. Kids never give their arms a chance to heal. In some cases you can't blame them. If they skip showcases or clubs they miss out on national exposure which hurts them in the draft and with scholarships. One solution that has been suggested is only allowing kids to pitch for either school or club, not both. However, this type of thing would require school and club coaches to work together and more times than not they're both out for themselves and their teams. Long story short, even if by some miracle kid's baseball was reformed today, those kids who are already in high school have likely put their arms through so much abuse that we wouldn't see a noticeable improvement for 5+ years in MLB.

I think there is a huge abuse of kids in all sports by many well intended adults. Many kids become one sport specialists before they are 11 year old. Soccer, basketball have become year round sports in most areas of the country for all age levels. Youth hockey leagues scheduling tournaments beginning on Friday which requires kids missing days of school. Kids playing 3-45 minute hockey games in an 8 hour time frame. I am pretty certain similar situations exist for baseball where the climate allows. When I coached LL baseball 20 years ago, our league did not allow pitchers to throw curve balls on the advise of an orthopedic surgeon. It was also believed that the majority of youth coaches did not have the expertise to teach it properly. Hence, the kids were strictly fastball and change-up type pitches. I recently went to a fall developmental LL game and the opposing 10 year old pitcher was throwing curves and other assorted pitches to 8 year olds. The kid had a good enough fastball to get kids out, but still was encouraged by coaches to use the curve regularly. I know times change and parents want their kids to excel and have sport opportunities, but common sense and the realization that the stress put on developing joints seems to be lacking.

[Tryptamine]

Prior to High School at the very least, no pitcher should be throwing anything other than a fastball and a change up. If I had my way I'd push for that to be the case all the way up to college, but that's a total impossibility with the draft and recruiting.

[DrungoHazewood]

This is a fascinating situation, at least to me. The most fascinating thing about this situation is that we usually advance and get smarter as time goes on. It seems to me that we are getting worse at handling pitchers despite the millions spent studying the situation. Because of the failure to properly handle pitchers health, I'm to the point where I wouldn't sign any high priced pitchers in free agency.

I think they are doing much better in the aspects that used to kill pitchers. But the unintended consequences were that everyone figured out that pitchers could go max-effort all the time with the more careful handling. I think that pitchers would be far healthier today if they paced for nine innings like it was 1975 but actually only threw 5-6 innings like today. But they adapted and now everyone throws like they’re a reliever, so the starters get hurt just like always.

[DrungoHazewood]

Disagree----it's the torque applied---hitters can handle velocity.

We threw way more years ago--fought arm fatigue without knowing what it was--but had far,

far less structural damage issues.

I don't think that's exactly true. And to the extent it is, it's because pitchers were taught to pace (or something like "you'll never have control or last nine throwing that hard.") But you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Everyone knows you can throw max-effort and be a better pitcher right up until the ligament snaps. You will be worse pitching at 80%. But healthier.

[JLee2027]

I'd love to see Buck, who is short on Starters, try a 3 man rotation.

Tillman

Ulbaldo

Gonzo

Would be all we need.

[Can_of_corn]

I'd love to see Buck, who is short on Starters, try a 3 man rotation.

Tillman

Ulbaldo

Gonzo

Would be all we need.

And if all three pitch like they did in 2015?

Hello protected pick!

[DrungoHazewood]

I quess we could go to a tee ball approach. Or make everyone pitch like Darren O'Day.

Pitchers still got hurt prior to the rule allowing overhand pitching. But you could get 600 innings a season out of some of them.

[weams]

Pitchers still got hurt prior to the rule allowing overhand pitching. But you could get 600 innings a season out of some of them.

Both ends of a double header. On one day rest.

[Moose Milligan]

I'll stand by my simpleton theory that an arm only has so many pitches in it. Nolan Ryan was an absolute freak, he took longer to break down than anyone else. Then you have a guy like Koufax who couldn't pitch past arthritis and had to retire young.

[UpstateNYfan]

Didn't Satchel Paige have a similar feeling about running??

[DrungoHazewood]

Both ends of a double header. On one day rest.

One day rest? Prior to the rules changes of the 1880s it was common to just use one pitcher, with someone else (often a position player) ready to go in some kind of emergency.