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Manny, Harper and Trout

Frobby

By Frobby
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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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You can have any opinion you want. I merely cited the pretty clear rhetoric associated with Harper, reserved only for the likes of Griffey d Arod that I can recall. There is pretty clear distinguishment between "once in a generation talent" (read the reference) and "one of the best in his generation" imo, even if its a rhetorical argument.

Well, I will agree with you that Harper was as hyped a player as I can ever recall. Pretty much the baseball version of Lebron James as a high schooler.

I think where we differ is that I never really heard a lot of hype about Harper's speed or defense -- not that he was supposed to be one-dimensional or anything, but his prodigious offensive feats are what attracted almost all the hype. And he may just live up to that, or at least come reasonably close.

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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Well, I will agree with you that Harper was as hyped a player as I can ever recall. Pretty much the baseball version of Lebron James as a high schooler.

I think where we differ is that I never really heard a lot of hype about Harper's speed or defense -- not that he was supposed to be one-dimensional or anything, but his prodigious offensive feats are what attracted almost all the hype. And he may just live up to that, or at least come reasonably close.

Sounds like we agree actually. I am merely stating you should not dismiss his ability to be superior defender (especially in RF) considering his tools, development, and the limited data we have on his OF play. Anecdotally he's been making some pretty great plays out there imo. Statistically he has a +14 rate by both UZR and DRS in CF though not nearly as well at COF.

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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If Baseball America was around in the 50's, I'm pretty sure Mantle would have been on your list.

I actually mentioned Mantle and Mays right from the beginning. They were names that I saw assciated with Harper in past articles. I recalled Arod but had forgotten about Griffey. Those guys are all clearly up there as far as initial talent/projections. But you're right about this type of scouting information and projections not being available in the 50's and would likely have been laughed at if they had. Heck I don't recall much of this stuff until in the public forum until the late 80s and 90's.

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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I don't believe I've ever referred to Harper as anything but a potential plus defender. My issue was with throwing an "elite" label on him and using a confusing "85% of Heyward" quote as evidence of anything. Harper played outfield in college (I think he ended up logging time at five positions over the course of that seasons as a high school junior making a one-year run through an already well-stocked JuCo squad). As an amateur I went catcher --> third base --> right field as far as where I would put him defensively. Had him as a potential plus defender at all three spots. I'm sure if you go back into the archives here or elsewhere you'll me write something glowing about his outfield play his rookie year.

This all traces back to the original point, however, that Harper did not achieve his huge level of hype because of his projected outfield play. He achieved it as a power-hitting catcher that was dominating competition 2-4 years older than he starting at around age 12. He was breaking JuCo homer records with a wood bat at an age when he should have been a junior in high school. He was drafted a year before he would have normally been eligible as a high schooler and still made his major league debut after like a year and a half's worth of minor league games. He wasn't solely a product of a hype-driven age of media -- he was as deserving of hype as any athlete can be.

Got it and agree. It's not my point either. Review my posts if you are unclear. Plus outfield defender is good enough for me. 85% of the movements of Jason Heyward means more to me than me that he doesn't glide well enough, add 5 tool player and based on what I've seen I think he very well COULD be an elite defender in RF. Time will tell. Hopefully he will be healthy and stay in RF for the year and we can revisit where he fell at the end of the year. .

Harper was never going to be a ML catcher (and I doubt his "5 tools" were based on being a catcher). Too many reasons why he should not be and that's not because he did not have the ability to be a very good catcher.

Have the last word.

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CanadianOriole Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

CanadianOriole

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Not to derail completely, but I think Carlos Correa ends up every bit the generational talent as Manny, Harper, and Trout. I think it's pretty likely he's one of the better SS in baseball right now. A possible perennial MVP candidate once he's up and established.

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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Not to derail completely, but I think Carlos Correa ends up every bit the generational talent as Manny, Harper, and Trout. I think it's pretty likely he's one of the better SS in baseball right now. A possible perennial MVP candidate once he's up and established.

Those are pretty impressive numbers. Especially for a 20 year old SS at AA.

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