Defense of ARod: "He's not that smart"

[Flip217]

From the NY Post

"In four years I was with him 24 hours a day, and not one time did I ever hear, see or get wind of anything having to do with performance enhancing drugs, steroids, HGH, anything," said Borzello, now the Dodgers' catching instructor. "No way, with as much as this guy trusted me, would he have kept that part of his life secret from me. He trusted me with everything, and I was with him every day all day long. It would have been impossible to show me everything behind the curtain except for this. He is not that bright to be able to pull that off." --Mike Borzello, former Yankees' bullpen catcher.

Whew! I bet Alex is really glad to get this sort of quality defense from former friends and colleagues.

[ChrisP]

I could see that comment being a tounge-in-cheek. If he was with the guy 24/7, you have to figure they were good friends.

Edit: I can't believe I used my 1500th post saying something about ARod.

[Migrant Redbird]

Testimonials like that are nearly worthless.

"No way, with as much as this guy trusted me, would he have kept that part of his life secret from me. He trusted me with everything,..."

Oh, really? Roger Clemens would have us to believe that his wife got steroids injections from his personal trainer and that both of them concealed that fact from Roger for several years.

I suspect that virtually everyone conceals something from those near and dear to them. Plus, I kind of doubt if Borzello is quite as tight with A-Rod as he would have us to believe.

[CrimsonTribe]

From the NY Post

"In four years I was with him 24 hours a day, and not one time did I ever hear, see or get wind of anything having to do with performance enhancing drugs, steroids, HGH, anything," said Borzello, now the Dodgers' catching instructor. "No way, with as much as this guy trusted me, would he have kept that part of his life secret from me. He trusted me with everything, and I was with him every day all day long. It would have been impossible to show me everything behind the curtain except for this. He is not that bright to be able to pull that off." --Mike Borzello, former Yankees' bullpen catcher.

Whew! I bet Alex is really glad to get this sort of quality defense from former friends and colleagues.

I think the bigger story here is that ARod was sleeping with a lowly bullpen catcher.

[blueberryale77]

Testimonials like that are nearly worthless.

"No way, with as much as this guy trusted me, would he have kept that part of his life secret from me. He trusted me with everything,..."

Oh, really? Roger Clemens would have us to believe that his wife got steroids injections from his personal trainer and that both of them concealed that fact from Roger for several years.

I suspect that virtually everyone conceals something from those near and dear to them. Plus, I kind of doubt if Borzello is quite as tight with A-Rod as he would have us to believe.

Exactly. The "24-7" thing is an obvious gross exaggeration. Nobody knows everything about even their closest friends. Larry Bigbie lived with Brian Roberts and didn't hide his own regular steroid use from him, yet he didn't find out Roberts had tried the stuff until a year after the fact. Those were two teammates the same age who came up through the minor leagues together and lived together at several different times, not a superstar player and his team's bullpen catcher!

Plus, for all we know this Borzello guy could have been ARod's dealer and be trying to cover his own heinie.

By the way, it's not like I care whether ARod did steroids or not. On one hand I'd like him to be proven guilty along with Jeter to silence a few Yankees fans who won't shut up about how "clean" they are, but on principal I think this continued obsession with who did and who didn't has got to get old for people at some point. Lots and lots and lots of baseball players used steroids. Some still do. If we catch the ones using today and give them a punishment that fits the crime, great, but no matter how clean ARod is or isn't it's not like it's going to change the fact that MLB did itself and its fans a major disservice by letting the steroid situation get so far out of control, or the fact that a lot of fans and reporters have let their obsession with it get way out of control.

[TyCobb]

Exactly. The "24-7" thing is an obvious gross exaggeration. Nobody knows everything about even their closest friends. Larry Bigbie lived with Brian Roberts and didn't hide his own regular steroid use from him, yet he didn't find out Roberts had tried the stuff until a year after the fact. Those were two teammates the same age who came up through the minor leagues together and lived together at several different times, not a superstar player and his team's bullpen catcher!

Plus, for all we know this Borzello guy could have been ARod's dealer and be trying to cover his own heinie.

By the way, it's not like I care whether ARod did steroids or not. On one hand I'd like him to be proven guilty along with Jeter to silence a few Yankees fans who won't shut up about how "clean" they are, but on principal I think this continued obsession with who did and who didn't has got to get old for people at some point. Lots and lots and lots of baseball players used steroids. Some still do. If we catch the ones using today and give them a punishment that fits the crime, great, but no matter how clean ARod is or isn't it's not like it's going to change the fact that MLB did itself and its fans a major disservice by letting the steroid situation get so far out of control, or the fact that a lot of fans and reporters have let their obsession with it get way out of control.

Sheffield and Giambi isn't enough for you?

[blueberryale77]

Sheffield and Giambi isn't enough for you?

Sheffield and Giambi were never Yankee heroes. It has to be ARod or Jeter because they're the ones about whom Yankees fans say "ARod/Jeter has accomplished X, Y, and Z in his career and he did it ALL 100% clean because of his pure, natural talent in a time when everyone else was juicing."

[TyCobb]

Sheffield and Giambi were never Yankee heroes. It has to be ARod or Jeter because they're the ones about whom Yankees fans say "ARod/Jeter has accomplished X, Y, and Z in his career and he did it ALL 100% clean because of his pure, natural talent in a time when everyone else was juicing."

The yankee fans I know can careless about A-Rod.

[Migrant Redbird]

...on principal I think this continued obsession with who did and who didn't has got to get old for people at some point. Lots and lots and lots of baseball players used steroids.

Exactly! Some of those who used will continue to be exposed, but most of them probably will never be identified. We might as well acknowledge that we don't know who used steroids and who didn't. All records established over the past 40-60 years are "tainted" to an unknowable degree, so we should simply accept that and move forward. A witch hunt to find the unfindable simply wastes everybody's time and resources. As law enforcement officials track down dealers and get them to identify their customers, we may add a few names to the "proven users" list, depending upon the reliability of the evidence, but a large number of the "usual suspects" have to be placed into the "unproven" category.

Some still do. If we catch the ones using today and give them a punishment that fits the crime, great,...

The rules have changed and those caught in the future should have no excuses or mitigating circumstances. We should move forward with testing programs and investigations that will ensure the game is as clean as possible of PEDs.

[Flip217]

If we catch the ones using today and give them a punishment that fits the crime, great, but no matter how clean ARod is or isn't it's not like it's going to change the fact that MLB did itself and its fans a major disservice by letting the steroid situation get so far out of control, or the fact that a lot of fans and reporters have let their obsession with it get way out of control.

I absolutely agree with you, but they're two totally separate issues.

It's true that MLB let the steroid situation get out of control, and they rightly deserve whatever blame we heap upon them.

That doesn't mean we and/or the media and/or MLB shouldn't pay attention to, and investigate claims, relating to use by current players.

You're right -- some are obsessed by the issue and seem to filter everything else through it. But Canseco -- as hard as it is for me to write this -- seems to have a certain amount of credibility on this issue (although I believe he leaks information selectively to promote himself and his soon-to-be-released books). And that's why this story is getting attention, IMHO.

[blueberryale77]

The yankee fans I know can careless about A-Rod.

Most of the ones I know don't care about ARod until it comes time to beat the dead Barry Bonds horse. Then it's all about how clean and pure ARod is and how great it's going to be when he breaks Bonds' record in a Yankee uniform.

[blueberryale77]

I absolutely agree with you, but they're two totally separate issues.

It's true that MLB let the steroid situation get out of control, and they rightly deserve whatever blame we heap upon them.

That doesn't mean we and/or the media and/or MLB shouldn't pay attention to, and investigate claims, relating to use by current players.

You're right -- some are obsessed by the issue and seem to filter everything else through it. But Canseco -- as hard as it is for me to write this -- seems to have a certain amount of credibility on this issue (although I believe he leaks information selectively to promote himself and his soon-to-be-released books). And that's why this story is getting attention, IMHO.

If Canseco has somewhat concrete information that indicates ARod is currently using steroids or has done so since the big crackdown in 2005, then sure they should investigate it; but if Canseco's "information" is simply that he introduced him to an unnamed steroid dealer many years ago, that's not worth investigating. We're not talking about cracking the crime of the century here, we're debating whether yet another baseball player in the steroid era used steroids. The "need to know" because it's a sexy issue shouldn't supersede reasonable presumptions of innocence until proven guilty.

[Flip217]

if Canseco's "information" is simply that he introduced him to an unnamed steroid dealer many years ago, that's not worth investigating.

I guess this is where we disagree. I believe Canseco knows first hand information on actual users and dealers. If he says he introduced a current player to a steroid dealer, I think that's reason enough to investigate that connection a bit further. You're absolutely right though -- there's no need to abandon a presumption of innocence.

I think in fairness to the players already investigated, you have to consider investigating additional claims and allegations against other players, always bearing in mind the need to separate frivolous or unsubstantiated claims from ones with apparent merit.

[blueberryale77]

I guess this is where we disagree. I believe Canseco knows first hand information on actual users and dealers. If he says he introduced a current player to a steroid dealer, I think that's reason enough to investigate that connection a bit further. You're absolutely right though -- there's no need to abandon a presumption of innocence.

I think in fairness to the players already investigated, you have to consider investigating additional claims and allegations against other players, always bearing in mind the need to separate frivolous or unsubstantiated claims from ones with apparent merit.

Problem is, Canseco has so far refused to even give the name of the alleged steroid dealer. If there were a name and address and reasonable suspicion that this person actually sold steroids that would be different.

As for the players who have already been witchhunted, I think many of them would prefer for others not to have to go through the same humiliation they've been through.

[Flip217]

As for the players who have already been witchhunted, I think many of them would prefer for others not to have to go through the same humiliation they've been through.

I guess so. But my first reaction, if I was one of those witch-hunted players, would be to wonder "How come they dropped the hammer on me but these other guys are getting a free pass?".