Would you fire Duquette?

[weams]

webbrick2010 was against re-signing Hardy, so therefore he is going to take JJ's poor season as conclusive proof that he is now a sub-replacement player.

Whether we are competitive next year or not depends on whether we get some bounceback from Tillman, Gonzalez and Gausman. It's abut that simple, though Duquette does have a lot of work to do to fill the holes at 1B, corner OF and DH and one SP spot.

All very true. A lot of things need to go right. Just like they went wrong this year.

[Il BuonO]

webbrick2010 was against re-signing Hardy, so therefore he is going to take JJ's poor season as conclusive proof that he is now a sub-replacement player.

Whether we are competitive next year or not depends on whether we get some bounceback from Tillman, Gonzalez and Gausman. It's abut that simple, though Duquette does have a lot of work to do to fill the holes at 1B, corner OF and DH and one SP spot.

Some bounce back won't cut it. They have enough coming off to get a MOR guy. I'd say TOR but I don't have any hopes that they're going after Price. It is the pitching.

[TINSTAAPP]

I do not think so -- Posey was floating a $10 MM bonus number the night before the draft (which is why he dropped to SanFran; Tampa very much wanted him but couldn't spend $10 MM and didn't want to risk not signing a 1st overall pick).

Couldn't you say the same thing about Wieters when the Orioles drafted him? He had Boras as his agent and wanted a huge bonus as well. Those demands scared off the Pirates and might have scared off the Cubs as well. The Pirates passing on Wieters actually hurt the Orioles in the long run. They would have much better off with Posey and Detwiler than Wieters and Matusz.

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[Can_of_corn]

Couldn't you say the same thing about Wieters when the Orioles drafted him? He had Boras as his agent and wanted a huge bonus as well. Those demands scared off the Pirates and might have scared off the Cubs as well. The Pirates passing on Wieters actually hurt the Orioles in the long run. They would have much better off with Posey and Detwiler than Wieters and Matusz.

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Why would a team that refused to sign Wieters then go and select another high asking price player the following year?

It doesn't make sense.

[DrungoHazewood]

Couldn't you say the same thing about Wieters when the Orioles drafted him? He had Boras as his agent and wanted a huge bonus as well. Those demands scared off the Pirates and might have scared off the Cubs as well. The Pirates passing on Wieters actually hurt the Orioles in the long run. They would have much better off with Posey and Detwiler than Wieters and Matusz.

In a perfect world the Cubs would have taken Wieters and the O's could have drafted Josh Vitters, who would then have been available. Or failing that they could have taken Daniel Moskos after the Pirates took Wieters. That would have been a sure injection of playoff glory, since their combined games played in 2015 is zero.

[Can_of_corn]

In a perfect world the Cubs would have taken Wieters and the O's could have drafted Josh Vitters, who would then have been available. Or failing that they could have taken Daniel Moskos after the Pirates took Wieters. That would have been a sure injection of playoff glory, since their combined games played in 2015 is zero.

I was worried on draft day that if Moskos was still on the board PA would intercede and force the O's to take him over Wieters.

[TINSTAAPP]

Why would a team that refused to sign Wieters then go and select another high asking price player the following year?

It doesn't make sense.

You aren't following me. If the Pirates had drafted Wieters, he wouldn't have been available when the Orioles made their selection. They would have been forced to draft another player most likely a pitcher. In the following year, Posey was available when the Orioles made their pick. I believe there's a good chance the Orioles would have selected him without Wieters in the fold. With Wieters in the organization, it made little sense to draft Posey although I know some people on this board wanted to draft him anyway because he was such a great talent. Anyway, having Wieters fall to them probably prevented the Orioles from drafting Posey so the Pirates decision actually hurt them in the long run.

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[TINSTAAPP]

In a perfect world the Cubs would have taken Wieters and the O's could have drafted Josh Vitters, who would then have been available. Or failing that they could have taken Daniel Moskos after the Pirates took Wieters. That would have been a sure injection of playoff glory, since their combined games played in 2015 is zero.

I would take Posey with Vitters, Moskos or anybody else over Wieters and Matusz any day of the week. Posey by himself will end up providing significantly more value than the other two players.

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[Can_of_corn]

You aren't following me. If the Pirates had drafted Wieters, he wouldn't have been available when the Orioles made their selection. They would have been forced to draft another player most likely a pitcher. In the following year, Posey was available when the Orioles made their pick. I believe there's a good chance the Orioles would have selected him without Wieters in the fold. With Wieters in the organization, it made little sense to draft Posey although I know some people on this board wanted to draft him anyway because he was such a great talent. Anyway, having Wieters fall to them probably prevented the Orioles from drafting Posey so the Pirates decision actually hurt them in the long run.

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I don't think you can it is anything close to a lock that the O's would have selected Posey.

Was he even viewed as a lock to stay at catcher?

[Can_of_corn]

I would take Posey with Vitters, Moskos or anybody else over Wieters and Matusz any day of the week. Posey by himself will end up providing significantly more value than the other two players.

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Well if we are playing revisionist history then I would have taken Trout over Hobgood!

So there!

It is still September and we are already talking about almost decade old draft decisions by other teams.

Going to be a long, long offseason.

[webbrick2010]

Some bounce back won't cut it. They have enough coming off to get a MOR guy. I'd say TOR but I don't have any hopes that they're going after Price. It is the pitching.

Hey at least one poster not in denial.

This last place team minus O'day, Chen, Wieters, and Davis can have all the bounce you want from Tillman, Gonzalez, and Gausman and still lose 90 games. Tillman and Gonzalez have track records (they are not that good). We need don't have the budget to sign the quality and quantity of FA's needed to get back to the playoffs.

I only asked if folks thought DD could lead a re-build. I don't, problem is DD and the majority of the posters on this board don't even recognize that it is the only path back to the playoffs for this franchise

[Can_of_corn]

Hey at least one poster not in denial.

This last place team minus O'day, Chen, Wieters, and Davis can have all the bounce you want from Tillman, Gonzalez, and Gausman and still lose 90 games. Tillman and Gonzalez have track records (they are not that good). We need don't have the budget to sign the quality and quantity of FA's needed to get back to the playoffs.

I only asked if folks thought DD could lead a re-build. I don't, problem is DD and the majority of the posters on this board don't even recognize that it is the only path back to the playoffs for this franchise

Anytime you have a core with a 6 win and a 5 win player it can be built around.

[Redskins Rick]

Well if we are playing revisionist history then I would have taken Trout over Hobgood!

So there!

It is still September and we are already talking about almost decade old draft decisions by other teams.

Going to be a long, long offseason.

I so agree with you.

[weams]

Thanks. Will look into these guys this evening. Hopefully they pan out.

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Some of them are pretty good.

[weams]

The Santana/Aybar offer was at the 2006 trade deadline, not on Andy's watch. And I don't recall a Seattle proposed deal for Tejada. I think Andy did pretty well with the Houston trade, though that was probably only his fourth best trade for the Orioles.

Could well be. Thanks.