Jones - "I'm not an accountant...You Have to Spend Some of the Money"

[MemorialStadKid]

There's a thing going on here at the OH, it probably stems from the old days. It's this thing that "The Orioles won't spend money," which isn't true anymore. Look at the payroll for this year. We're not the Yankees or Dodgers but we're not in the poorhouse when it comes to payroll, either. It's this JTrea/MSK driven narrative that makes the Orioles sound like they're misers and just hoarding money and not spending a dime, leaving the poor fans out in the cold. It's absolutely false and it just breeds ignorance and negativity amongst the casual fans who don't pay attention, don't bother to look at payroll ($118 million) and just loooooove to harp on Angelos for everything that's ever gone wrong here.

Nice bait there man.

It would be even better if this were supported by stuff I actually said.

*shrugs*

I've tried to be cool lately, but when you call me out with nonsense I have to say something about that.

MSK

[MemorialStadKid]

I guess what I should have tacked on is that spending money just doesn't equal winning. The MSK crowd should be aware of that but would choose to ignore it.

And you did it twice.

What's hilarious is that I've posted like 100 times that I fully support an enriched farm system, better scouting and development, an increased presence on the international front and smart trading.

I have NEVER said spend money for the sake of it. You cannot find a single post where I've said that.

Please stop.

MSK

[Nevermore]

I can't blame AJ for feeling the way that he does. I'd probably feel the exact same way in his shoes if I were him, too.

On the flip side of the coin, I don't expect him to understand the reasoning behind trades and deals. I don't mean that to make him sound ignorant, either. He's a player, he's only focused on the present. He's not going to understand why we didn't sign Davis but signed 3 other players that'd equal Davis' salary who could help us in other ways. I don't expect him to understand why giving someone Davis' age with his body type a deal that'll be 7-8 years is a risky move. I don't expect him to understand why the Mariners traded him, Tillman and others for Bedard.

I don't fault him for that, either. He's a player, he's only focused on the present. As he said, he's not an accountant, he doesn't know.

There's a thing going on here at the OH, it probably stems from the old days. It's this thing that "The Orioles won't spend money," which isn't true anymore. Look at the payroll for this year. We're not the Yankees or Dodgers but we're not in the poorhouse when it comes to payroll, either. It's this JTrea/MSK driven narrative that makes the Orioles sound like they're misers and just hoarding money and not spending a dime, leaving the poor fans out in the cold. It's absolutely false and it just breeds ignorance and negativity amongst the casual fans who don't pay attention, don't bother to look at payroll ($118 million) and just loooooove to harp on Angelos for everything that's ever gone wrong here.

I hope they re-sign Davis and O'Day. I hope they spend some money. I hope they make smart, practical moves. I don't pretend to know what happened last offseason with DD and why he didn't spend anything. I prefer to believe that he just didn't see anything he liked so he stood pat instead of some wild conspiracy theory that the Blue Jays offer interfered with his integrity. But I don't know that for sure. And neither do you.

But yeah, I don't expect Jones to think things through past the 2016 season, I don't expect him to care about long term ramifications of big, expensive contracts.

I'm not sure why you (and perhaps others) seem to take the view that Jones is just a mere player, an employee, and just doesn't understand the workings of management. I'm retired now, but when I was working (I worked in IT as an applications programmer), most people where I worked did understand the workings of our management because, for the most part, it was explained to us. We were not considered "mere IT people who just don't understand management's goals."

Being a long-term employee, signed for several years, I would expect that AJ would care about long term ramifications about the team that he works for. It's clear from AJ's comments that he cares very much about the team's long-term future.

As for DD, I don't think that DD secretly was trying to help the Blue Jays in the 2015 off season. I just believe that DD made some errors in baseball judgment.

[Nevermore]

I looked at the payroll estimates at baseball reference.Try it some time.

Could you give me the specific link where Baseball Reference lists payroll estimates. I went to their site and I couldn't find this information.

[Moose Milligan]

And you did it twice.

What's hilarious is that I've posted like 100 times that I fully support an enriched farm system, better scouting and development, an increased presence on the international front and smart trading.

I have NEVER said spend money for the sake of it. You cannot find a single post where I've said that.

Please stop.

MSK

You weren't the one going ballistic after this offseason? Must have been someone else.

[Nevermore]

This team needs Davis to re-sign, add a couple of solid pitchers(maybe one lefty starter) and try and add a decent bat for LF or RF. They COULD no re-sign Davis but instead go after someone like Cespedes, but to me its the same scenario, not good enough. I'll say this, if they think Mancini is ready to thrive in the big leagues with power, they are mistaken. Power bats are hard to come by and we can't lose two 40+HR hitters in consecutive years without alienating our true fans. Simply put, these fans deserve better.

You are absolutely correct. I ride the Light Rail to Orioles games. The fans that I regularly talk with are telling me, "if management doesn't resign Chris Davis, there will be trouble." I'm not talking about wailing and whining. I'm talking about true alienation i.e. not buying tickets. Which would definitely lose revenue for the team.

[MemorialStadKid]

You weren't the one going ballistic after this offseason? Must have been someone else.

Yes, I went ballistic between Nov 2014 and Feb 2015. It wasn't because of the lack of SPENDING it was because we let high quality players go and replaced them with AAAA talent.

This I also said 100 times or more. I guess it's selective outrage huh? Ignore anything sensible I say and just make up or twist stuff I said that you don't agree with.

That must be fun.

MSK

[scOtt]

"You talk about needs," Jones said. "I like the way this clubhouse is right now. Obviously, you can add a few pieces, so if we bring this team back and add a few pieces, I'd like that. But the reality is, this clubhouse is going to be very different, especially with the number of free agents. Bring back who you really, really want and you really think is going to be the most effective for the next five years, at least three of four years, until I'm up, Manny (Machado) is a free agent. There's a lot of things. I think the next three years are going to be very important to this organization."

Jones doesn't know whether talking to ownership and executive vice president Dan Duquette will make an impact, but it doesn't hurt to try.

"At least they heard it," he said. "They heard my point, they heard my side, and at the end of the day, all you can do is get your point out, right?"

If Jones wants to recruit left-hander David Price, he needs only to walk down to the visiting clubhouse at Camden Yards.

"He's going to be commanding $25 to $32 million. I don't foresee that happening in Baltimore," Jones said with a chuckle.

"That's reality. And he's definitely earned it. He's going to be in the $25 to $32 million salary range, especially next year. He's making $19 million this year. I'd love to play with David Price. He's one of the game's best people and best pitchers, but I'm going to probably be an opponent of his for my entire career. That's perfectly fine with me. He's one of the game's best competitors."

source - Roch

All past tense. Heard. Adam has already talked to Peter and Dan?

And they BENCHED him! Back spasms my ass.

[Nevermore]

One more thing. Aside from maybe the Rays who have legitimate financial issues because of horrible attendance and a small TV deal, EVERY team in our division has moved to make themselves much better via FA,or international signings or bold trades. We have NOT. I don't buy the small media market argument. We are literally being passed by with teams in our division and it will continue to be so. The Red Sox will be a lot better next year and so should Toronto and the Yankees(you know they'll go after Price or Greinke or even Cueto and I believe they may even go after Davis).You can't be better by letting quality players go and replacing them with stop gap solutions.Parra to me isn't even a player Id bring back, but the Orioles might. To be so close to a WS and then the next year be battling for the cellar isn't just disappointing.It is unacceptable.

What can I say? :agree:

[MemorialStadKid]

One more thing. Aside from maybe the Rays who have legitimate financial issues because of horrible attendance and a small TV deal, EVERY team in our division has moved to make themselves much better via FA,or international signings or bold trades. We have NOT. I don't buy the small media market argument. We are literally being passed by with teams in our division and it will continue to be so. The Red Sox will be a lot better next year and so should Toronto and the Yankees(you know they'll go after Price or Greinke or even Cueto and I believe they may even go after Davis).You can't be better by letting quality players go and replacing them with stop gap solutions.Parra to me isn't even a player Id bring back, but the Orioles might. To be so close to a WS and then the next year be battling for the cellar isn't just disappointing.It is unacceptable.

This is the summary of the "MSK argument."

Glad I didn't have to say it again.

MSK

[scOtt]

Not if they give up any picks it won't be.

You're awful picky about that.

[El Gordo]

Could you give me the specific link where Baseball Reference lists payroll estimates. I went to their site and I couldn't find this information.

It's so easy that I refuse, if you are that stupid, or lazy it's a waste of time.

[scOtt]

Could you give me the specific link where Baseball Reference lists payroll estimates. I went to their site and I couldn't find this information.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

Then go through each Oriole player signed through 2016, 2017, 2018.. plug all that into a spreadsheet. Budget numbers. Gordo is good at that [stuff].

[JanJaap]

Could you give me the specific link where Baseball Reference lists payroll estimates. I went to their site and I couldn't find this information.

Here it is. BR

The "Arb cost" (rough estimate) and "other costs" (estimate) are include by the Baseball Reference.

[flyhighbirds]

This team needs Davis to re-sign, add a couple of solid pitchers(maybe one lefty starter) and try and add a decent bat for LF or RF. They COULD no re-sign Davis but instead go after someone like Cespedes, but to me its the same scenario, not good enough. I'll say this, if they think Mancini is ready to thrive in the big leagues with power, they are mistaken. Power bats are hard to come by and we can't lose two 40+HR hitters in consecutive years without alienating our true fans. Simply put, these fans deserve better.

What do you think the reaction would be from the fan base if the orioles go into a full rebuilding mode? Trade Jones, Britton,

Hardy etc for prospects.