TT: The Orioles are a mediocre team

[FlipTheBird]

I think Tillman and Gausman will still give us more good starts than bad ones.

The team ran out of patience with Tyler Wilson a little early considering how long of a leash Wright got and Ubaldo is still getting. I would have given him another start or two. We need a third reliable starter. Hopefully Gallardo becomes that. I'm sure we add someone at the deadline as well.

We can still win the division with mediocre pitching. Boston's SP situation is just as bad.

Patience ran out on Ubaldo and Wright long before they were each booted from the rotation, the team just didn't have options at the time due to health concerns/contract situations.

If the O's could remove Ubaldo from the roster with an option, like they did Wilson, he'd have been gone in May. They can't.

[SteveA]

I don't know if I can say that I was clamoring for him, but I was and touting him since last season, and asserting since then (last season) that Miranda could likely be called up by mid-season of 2016. I was excited about he and Joe Gunkel (ESPECIALLY Gunkel) as potential candidates for the starting rotation in 2017 and beyond.

But yes, not many were pounding on the doors for Miranda to be brought up to the Orioles.

I wasn't pounding either but I felt, at age 27, it was getting to be time to find out what he is capable of. The number of guys who debut in the majors at his age or later and contribute a lot is pretty short. If he isn't ready to pitch in the majors now he probably never will be.

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[Frobby]

It is not surprising that we have hit a cold streak. The starting pitching isn't good, and when they perform at their worst for a week or so, they are going to look real bad. But they aren't as bad as they are showing at the moment, just like the offense isn't as good as it looked in June.

It's going to be a long, bumpy ride.

[Beef Supreme]

Tony was pretty much right.

Buttmuncher

I don't disagree with his assessment. I disagree with his conclusion that, since the Orioles are "mediocre," they will win a maximum of 85 games, by his definition of that word. Even after losing 5 straight, the Orioles are on a 93-win pace. The remaining schedule is more favorable than some think: 23 of their remaining 80 games are against either the lame Rays or the pathetic Yanks ~ 29% of the remaining games. Sure, they still have 18 against Boston and Toronto, but they match up fine with them. There are good quality teams - DC, Cleveland, Houston, Texas - but they are nicely offset by series with Colorado, Oakland and Arizona. I can't agree that the Orioles will play .475 ball the rest of the way. If they play only .500 ball, they'll have an 87-win season -- which may qualify for a post-season berth. But they are looking good for 90 wins, minimum, even after this losing streak. I think the essence of what Tony is saying is incorrect when he declares the Orioles are not in a competitive position to make the postseason.

[TradeAngelos]

Here are some "stats" for everyone.

After 20 games, 4 games over .500

After 40 games, 10 games over .500

After 60 games, 12 games over .500

After 80 games, 14 games over .500

Put that in your mediocre pipe and smoke it.

It is quite funny how certain people come out of the woodwork after a little losing streak, but have nothing to say while they are winning.

You can dig for all the random, cherrypicked numbers you want but this team is only poised to get BETTER, not worse with the schedule and O'Day coming back, Gausman in the mix and Gallardo back vs the first half of the season.

I know that just breaks your little hearts.

[Tony-OH]

I wasn't pounding either but I felt, at age 27, it was getting to be time to find out what he is capable of. The number of guys who debut in the majors at his age or later and contribute a lot is pretty short. If he isn't ready to pitch in the majors now he probably never will be.

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The difference of course being is he's a Cuban import, not a guy who's been in the minor league system for 9 years. I have no problem with him getting the start Friday instead of Jimenez. What's to lose?

[Tony-OH]

Buttmuncher

I don't disagree with his assessment. I disagree with his conclusion that, since the Orioles are "mediocre," they will win a maximum of 85 games, by his definition of that word. Even after losing 5 straight, the Orioles are on a 93-win pace. The remaining schedule is more favorable than some think: 23 of their remaining 80 games are against either the lame Rays or the pathetic Yanks ~ 29% of the remaining games. Sure, they still have 18 against Boston and Toronto, but they match up fine with them. There are good quality teams - DC, Cleveland, Houston, Texas - but they are nicely offset by series with Colorado, Oakland and Arizona. I can't agree that the Orioles will play .475 ball the rest of the way. If they play only .500 ball, they'll have an 87-win season -- which may qualify for a post-season berth. But they are looking good for 90 wins, minimum, even after this losing streak. I think the essence of what Tony is saying is incorrect when he declares the Orioles are not in a competitive position to make the postseason.

Obviously if I had a crystal ball and knew the Orioles would set a MLB record for home runs hit in a month and go as far as 16 games over .500 I would not have come to that assessment. They've given themselves a huge lead to win closer to 90 games this year, but I still would not be surprised if they ended up an 87-88 win team. The one thing they have him going for them is the Division being really weak. I still think Boston ends up in front of the Orioles by the end of the year. Hope I'm wrong though.

[Tony-OH]

Here are some "stats" for everyone.

After 20 games, 4 games over .500

After 40 games, 10 games over .500

After 60 games, 12 games over .500

After 80 games, 14 games over .500

Put that in your mediocre pipe and smoke it.

It is quite funny how certain people come out of the woodwork after a little losing streak, but have nothing to say while they are winning.

You can dig for all the random, cherrypicked numbers you want but this team is only poised to get BETTER, not worse with the schedule and O'Day coming back, Gausman in the mix and Gallardo back vs the first half of the season.

I know that just breaks your little hearts.

Why the condescending tone? There are are only a few truly negative nellies that will see the bad in a seven-game win streak, but most most people call them as they see it. I doubt though that anyone's heart will be broken if the Orioles do better than they think. Even the extreme negative nellies are still O's fans.

You condescending tone just limits the effectiveness of your message.

I would also argue effectively that the Orioles starting pitching does not "poise them" to improve.

[Going Underground]

Buttmuncher

I don't disagree with his assessment. I disagree with his conclusion that, since the Orioles are "mediocre," they will win a maximum of 85 games, by his definition of that word. Even after losing 5 straight, the Orioles are on a 93-win pace. The remaining schedule is more favorable than some think: 23 of their remaining 80 games are against either the lame Rays or the pathetic Yanks ~ 29% of the remaining games. Sure, they still have 18 against Boston and Toronto, but they match up fine with them. There are good quality teams - DC, Cleveland, Houston, Texas - but they are nicely offset by series with Colorado, Oakland and Arizona. I can't agree that the Orioles will play .475 ball the rest of the way. If they play only .500 ball, they'll have an 87-win season -- which may qualify for a post-season berth. But they are looking good for 90 wins, minimum, even after this losing streak. I think the essence of what Tony is saying is incorrect when he declares the Orioles are not in a competitive position to make the postseason.

All about the pitching. I had them at 78 wins for the season. June made me up it to 85. All about the pitching. I guess the good thing is the AL East and the American League in general is not that good. You can look at the schedule but who knows what really will happen. Rays might get healthy and play a little better. Yankees may find another fountain of youth. Pitching will determine the Orioles future. The Orioles are also one of the more healthy teams right now. Things change and bumps happen. Should at least beat up on the Angels.

[Frobby]

Obviously if I had a crystal ball and knew the Orioles would set a MLB record for home runs hit in a month and go as far as 16 games over .500 I would not have come to that assessment. They've given themselves a huge lead to win closer to 90 games this year, but I still would not be surprised if they ended up an 87-88 win team. The one thing they have him going for them is the Division being really weak. I still think Boston ends up in front of the Orioles by the end of the year. Hope I'm wrong though.

I don't think that's unreasonable. We won't have another offensive month as good as June, so the starting pitching is going to need to rebound or we may fade in the second half. The starters have an ERA of 6.71 in the 22 games since June 11. I don't think they can possibly be this bad, but they need to prove it.

[Charles1985]

They've given themselves a huge lead to win closer to 90 games this year, but I still would not be surprised if they ended up an 87-88 win team.

So what you're saying is that they're on pace to win close to 90 games, and you would not be surprised if they end up winning close to 90 games?

[Tony-OH]

I don't think that's unreasonable. We won't have another offensive month as good as June, so the starting pitching is going to need to rebound or we may fade in the second half. The starters have an ERA of 6.71 in the 22 games since June 11. I don't think they can possibly be this bad, but they need to prove it.

The ORioles starting pitching won't remain that bad, especially since Tillman and Gausman should pitch better. The question is, will the Orioles be able to complete a decent rotation with the likes of Gallardo, Jimenez, Miranda, Wilson, Wright and possibly Gunkle and Aquino as candidates?

Tell you what, Miguel Gonzalez's 4.88 ERA and Bud Norris' 4.50 ERA as a starter would make them our 3rd and 4th best starters. And don't get me started on DD throwing away Zach Davies last year. Even after his last poor start his 4.22 ERa would look pretty damn good. Now clearly two of these guys pitch in the NL and I'm not saying their ERA's would be the same here, but those three have kept there teams in games more times than not, which is something that can't be said for Gallardo, Jimenez and Wright.

My guess is that Wilson comes back after the All-Star break and gets another chance. At this point, I'm ABJ (Anyone But Jimenez).

[Tony-OH]

So what you're saying is that they're on pace to win close to 90 games, and you would not be surprised if they end up winning close to 90 games?

I believe they are on pace for a 93-win season as of today. I'm saying I could see them end up a 87-88 win team. If that fits your narrative then yes.

[weams]

The ORioles starting pitching won't remain that bad, especially since Tillman and Gausman should pitch better. The question is, will the Orioles be able to complete a decent rotation with the likes of Gallardo, Jimenez, Miranda, Wilson, Wright and possibly Gunkle and Aquino as candidates?

Tell you what, Miguel Gonzalez's 4.88 ERA and Bud Norris' 4.50 ERA as a starter would make them our 3rd and 4th best starters. And don't get me started on DD throwing away Zach Davies last year. Even after his last poor start his 4.22 ERa would look pretty damn good. Now clearly two of these guys pitch in the NL and I'm not saying their ERA's would be the same here, but those three have kept there teams in games more times than not, which is something that can't be said for Gallardo, Jimenez and Wright.

My guess is that Wilson comes back after the All-Star break and gets another chance. At this point, I'm ABJ (Anyone But Jimenez).

Don't worry about Wilson. Duquette will trade for someone before he gets a chance again.

[SteveA]

Why the condescending tone. There are are only a few truly negative nellies that will see the bad in a seven-game win streak, but most most people call them as they see it. I doubt though that anyone's heart will be broken if the Orioles do better than they think. Even the extreme negative nellies are still O's fans.

You condescending tone just limits the effectiveness of your message.

I would also argue effectively that the Orioles starting pitching does not "poise them" to improve.

There's been plenty of condescension to go around in this thread. Such as when you told me "You are acting ridiculous. One of the most difficult things around here about being a realist is dealing with those of you who are not".

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