TT: The Orioles are a mediocre team

[gmelson26]

I can't even imagine what DD is going to give up at the All-Star break to make this team a "contender."

You probably cannot imagine it because there's nothing left really to give.

[weams]

You probably cannot imagine it because there's nothing left really to give.

Sisco, Hess, Mountcastle, Reyes, Lee, Bundy.

[gmelson26]

Also outside of Britton and oday, our pen has been pretty average.

Bundy hasn't been good, Matusz was let go, Worley is meh, oday has been a little shaky, givens is only good against righties.

Our pen is not nearly as good this year as its been in the past. Would love to see some stats on this.

I'm sorry, but you have to include Brach as above average or better this year to date.

EDIT due to weams: Worley has been very good for us in the pen. I think I'd give him a shot over Ubaldo or Gallardo (depending how he comes back) in the rotation at this point.

[weams]

I'm sorry, but you have to include Brach as above average or better this year to date.

Worley has been great.

Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR SB CS BB SO SO/W BA OBP SLG OPS

as Reliever 11 85 78 2 19 5 0 0 0 1 6 16 2.67 .244 .306 .308 .614

[gmelson26]

Sisco, Hess, Mountcastle, Reyes, Lee, Bundy.

I'd include Hunter Harvey in the list, and yes there's a list, but I doubt teams would be knocking down our door for a trade.

[Tony-OH]

Agreed. O's were one robbed 2 run HR (Manny) and one called back (Davis) from them playing extra innings right now. It's too early to write them off. Good teams still have their slumps. I look forward to them turning the corner.

They have played sub .500 ball for the last 43 games. Sure, they are in a slump, and of course they will go on a win streak at some point, but the problem is, they will also have another one of these losing streaks and end up where they are, a .500 team.

[weams]

I'd include Hunter Harvey in the list, and yes there's a list, but I doubt teams would be knocking down our door for a trade.

I can't imagine Harvey would be of interest with his injury. He'll have to pitch for a while to bring back much.

[Tony-OH]

DD has made no significant long term additions to this team. Who is his best long-term acquisition, Chris Lee? The guy who is striking out 3 batters per 9 innings in Bowie.

The only thing that DD has been good for is finding guys who can come in and contribute for a couple months or a season. His free agent signings and trades have been flat out embarrassing.

People won't realize how bad of a GM DD is until a year or two after he's gone, when he has left to avoid the massive rebuild.

Has he won a trade? I mean, Andrew Miller did give us a legitimate chance to win a World Series so I understand giving up a Eduardo Rodriguez, and Hader gave us Bud Norris who helped us that season as well. But outside of that season, every trade we've lost. Hell, even the Valencia for Lough trade looks terrible. Lough was never a good player for us Valencia sure would look good at 3B right now. All Valencia has done is slash (.286 /332/.473/.805) since we gave him away for Lough.

[Tony-OH]

I still find it absolutely incredible they spent 200 mil in the offseason and the starting pitching actually got MARKEDLY worse and we lost another first round draft pick.

Sorry, but Dan duquette sucks. I wish he was in Toronto and I have to think buck may feel the same way too.

We were a .500 team last year, spent $200 million to keep the same players and add a pitcher who no one else wanted to touch for a 1st round pick. I was only for signing Gallardo if he was healthy and if we also got Fowler. Once we lost Fowler Gallardo made no sense.

[bpilktree]

Has he won a trade? I mean, Andrew Miller did give us a legitimate chance to win a World Series so I understand giving up a Eduardo Rodriguez, and Hader gave us Bud Norris who helped us that season as well. But outside of that season, every trade we've lost. Hell, even the Valencia for Lough trade looks terrible. Lough was never a good player for us Valencia sure would look good at 3B right now. All Valencia has done is slash (.286 /332/.473/.805) since we gave him away for Lough.

Brad Brach and Mark Trumbo seem like nice trades to me only a guy that is currently slated to be an all star in the outfield.

[TouchemAll]

The Orioles have gone 21-22 since starting the year 7-0. 43 games of sub .500 vs 7 games of perfection. That's a lot of mediocre baseball from a mediocre team.

It's time to call this team what it is, and that's a mediocre .500 team.

We have one legitimate starter in Tillman, a decent but inconsistent starter in Gausman, two five inning or two time through an order starters in Wilson and Wright, and guys like Jimenez and Gallardo who wouldn't even be pitching in the majors if not for their contracts.

We have one of the worse systems in baseball, and DD has given up his 1st round pick again for a pitcher who throws 87 MPH.

I know I sound like Debbie Downer here, but watching the Red Sox just manhandle this team just highlighted how much better they are as a team.

The Orioles will still win their share and the team isn't as bad as they are when they are in these home runs slumps, but this is why you need to get some OBP batters. OBP guys tend to limit their slumps while low OBP, high homer guys tend to be streaky.

Watching Red Sox fans take over the yard again is pretty disappointing, but it's hard to blame fans for staying away when the prices went up, but yet they are forced to watch the Ubaldo's and Gallardo's of the world get big contracts while the Arrieta's, Hader's and Rodriguez's are traded away.

Yea I pretty much agree it's a .500 club give or take a few wins. It might be time to unload Machado to reload this clubs pitching in the off season.

[Aristotelian]

We were a .500 team last year, spent $200 million to keep the same players and add a pitcher who no one else wanted to touch for a 1st round pick. I was only for signing Gallardo if he was healthy and if we also got Fowler. Once we lost Fowler Gallardo made no sense.

No doubt, Fowler was a huge debacle and an absolute embarrassment to the Orioles. Getting stuck with Gallardo with nothing else to show for it was the worst possible outcome. No way we should have moved forward with Gallardo until Fowler is signed on the dotted line. No contract is final until it is signed and DD somehow forgot this cardinal rule that applies to any business.

[Tony-OH]

Challenge for Tony. Name 4 AL teams that are clearly better than mediocre.

What's your point? I never said the Orioles don't have a chance at a wild card, I just said they are mediocre, which is what they've been most of the season.

The Red Sox as constructed are clearly a much better team than the Orioles and I said this team is probably an 80-84 win team this year. the way the Orioles have played over the last 43 games, they are proving me right.

I know some people are saying this is reactionary and doom and gloom, but I'm being honest when I'm evaluating the team. Now if Gallardo comes back and hes throwing 90-91 again I'll feel better about him, but if he's still 86-89, then he's not going to be of help and the Orioles have flushed the 15th overall pick down the drain.

The Red Sox are clearly the best team in the AL, but the Royals, Rangers and Mariners all look pretty good this year as well. Houston started out slow but I bet they are in the thick of things by seasons end.

I just think the Orioles spent a lot of money this offseason and didn't clearly upgrade their team. It's hard to start paying guys FA money to keep them without guys ready to take their place from the farm. That's what this organization continues to struggle at doing and when they do have some guys close (Walker/Mancini) they end up dumping a ton of money to keep the guy blocking them. Now don't get me wrong, Davis is much better than either one of those guys, but maybe that money should have been spent on a position of need like corner outfield?

[Tony-OH]

Sisco,, Hess, Mountcastle, Reyes, Lee, Bundy.

Hate to put a damper on the excitement of these guys, but here's some things about them.

Sisco (no power, still has a ways to go to be an average major league defensive catcher but improving)

Hess (4th/5th starter, most scouts think he'll end up in the pen still because of no consistent out pitch, 5.9K/9 at AA)

Reyes (Can't recognize spin yet, has some talent but slashing .207/.263/.329/.592 and striking out at a high rate at High-A means he's been exposed a bit)

Lee (3.3 K/9. Don't care how many ground ball you get, if you can't get AA batters to miss you are going to struggle at higher levels.)

Bundy (Fastball doesn't have much movement, velocity ok, but not dominant, batters seem to pick him up well, little deception.)

Literally, there is not one can't miss impact player in the system. There are interesting guys, and guys that should be able to help a major league club, but where's the guy you say to yourself, "It's just a matter of time before they are there and impacting the league?"

[SpinJr]

Hate to put a damper on the excitement of these guys, but here's some things about them.

Sisco (no power, still has a ways to go to be an average major league defensive catcher but improving)

Hess (4th/5th starter, most scouts think he'll end up in the pen still because of no consistent out pitch, 5.9K/9 at AA)

Reyes (Can't recognize spin yet, has some talent but slashing .207/.263/.329/.592 and striking out at a high rate at High-A means he's been exposed a bit)

Lee (3.3 K/9. Don't care how many ground ball you get, if you can't get AA batters to miss you are going to struggle at higher levels.)

Bundy (Fastball doesn't have much movement, velocity ok, but not dominant, batters seem to pick him up well, little deception.)

Literally, there is not one can't miss impact player in the system. There are interesting guys, and guys that should be able to help a major league club, but where's the guy you say to yourself, "It's just a matter of time before they are there and impacting the league?"

Agree with most of what you've said. However, may I suggest we just pretend that the grass is greener than it is? The board is taking this slump very hard indeed!

(pretend being the operative word)