Will the fans show?

[DrungoHazewood]

The professional centers in Bowie start at $1200 a month for one kid, and a couple of them were around $1500 a month. Add a second kid and it goes beyond a mortgage payment. In DC it's a crapton more.

You can scour around and find in-home options that run a lot less, but you need to know someone who knows someone. That's how I found my backup option. But when you're starting out on your own, the first places you typically turn aren't cheap anymore. It's why it's also an issue (though somewhat minor in comparison) on the presidential stage.

I didn't pay that much, but when I had two kids that age it was almost $20k a year. For a while it was more than the mortgage on my old house, the biggest single expense I had. You could buy a spectacular car for the cost of daycare.

[schittenden]

I didn't pay that much, but when I had two kids that age it was almost $20k a year. For a while it was more than the mortgage on my old house, the biggest single expense I had. You could buy a spectacular car for the cost of daycare.

Not sure how we got on this topic, but we paid $1650 per month (roughly, since we paid each week) for care when my son was an infant. It gets a little cheaper as they get older. We're down to about $1300 per month now that he is almost five. We've looked at four places for him, since we're getting ready to move, and they are all within $100 per month of each other.

[webbrick2010]

God Bless stay at home Moms (or Dads)

[OFFNY]

God Bless stay at home Moms (or Dads)

o

Bless webbrick's posting patterns, which spare anyone who did not watch the game the trouble of looking in the box scores to see whether or not the Orioles won or lost.

Functionalists would make the argument that you do indeed serve a purpose.

[CP0861]

I will say when I had season tickets the only contact I had with my rep was an extremely negative one. I was short a ticket when my tickets were mailed and he was like that never happens check your tickets again. So I said I checked my tickets multiple times and he responded he was too busy now to do anything about it. So I went to the ticket booth at the first game I attended and they brought in a manager who was able to print out my ticket. Really nice experience there but the sales rep I would give a big negative.

Fortunately, I've had an excellent rep. If he was a slug like yours, with the amount of transferring/trading I did this year (and will definitely continue in future), I'd probably already be gone.

I'll hang around for 2017 (I've already committed my playoff ticket money to roll over) but beyond that, it's 50-50 at best. There's just simply no significant incentive to keep my season tickets when the secondary market provides what I want for the same or less than what I'm paying. The "season ticket owner pricing" is worthless when I can beat it on StubHub. For example, STO pricing for my Sunday 9/25 seats are $62 each. Right now, there are comparable seats on StubHub for $50/each. Using SH would have been $24 cheaper for the game (which would cover my toll, parking, a beer, and a bottled water). Sweet. Real simple math for a bottom line person like myself. I'll risk paying a few extra dollars for OD and playoff seats to have the flexibility and potential savings from buying off StubHub....and the savings is likely to be even more significant if attendance continues to drop. Basic supply/demand. The Orioles should be scrambling to correct and/or compensate for that and protect their pricing, but I certainly don't get any impression they are doing that.

I might end up going to just as many games without season tickets, but realistically, without the commitment involved, other things will get scheduled and I will almost definitely attend fewer games.

So I guess, long story short, from a dollars and cents standpoint, they're literally encouraging their best customers to come to fewer games.

If I was in college, this would be a killer project or research topic for a Econ/Marketing/Business Mgmt. student.

[DrungoHazewood]

Fortunately, I've had an excellent rep. If he was a slug like yours, with the amount of transferring/trading I did this year (and will definitely continue in future), I'd probably already be gone.

I'll hang around for 2017 (I've already committed my playoff ticket money to roll over) but beyond that, it's 50-50 at best. There's just simply no significant incentive to keep my season tickets when the secondary market provides what I want for the same or less than what I'm paying. The "season ticket owner pricing" is worthless when I can beat it on StubHub. For example, STO pricing for my Sunday 9/25 seats are $62 each. Right now, there are comparable seats on StubHub for $50/each. Using SH would have been $24 cheaper for the game (which would cover my toll, parking, a beer, and a bottled water). Sweet. Real simple math for a bottom line person like myself. I'll risk paying a few extra dollars for OD and playoff seats to have the flexibility and potential savings from buying off StubHub....and the savings is likely to be even more significant if attendance continues to drop. Basic supply/demand. The Orioles should be scrambling to correct and/or compensate for that and protect their pricing, but I certainly don't get any impression they are doing that.

I might end up going to just as many games without season tickets, but realistically, without the commitment involved, other things will get scheduled and I will almost definitely attend fewer games.

So I guess, long story short, from a dollars and cents standpoint, they're literally encouraging their best customers to come to fewer games.

If I was in college, this would be a killer project or research topic for a Econ/Marketing/Business Mgmt. student.

Look here: https://www.teammarketing.com/public/uploadedPDFs/MLB-FCI-2016.pdf

Any way you look at it going to an O's game is cheaper than at least 20 (and depending on your ticket) maybe 25 other MLB teams. And that's with a 12% increase over last year. To sit in a "premium" seat (appears to be the equivalent of the Club Level) at Nat's Park it'll cost you more than double the rate at OPACY, $115 vs $50.

There are only relatively small handful of major pro sports teams in North America cheaper than the Orioles.

[CP0861]

Look here: https://www.teammarketing.com/public/uploadedPDFs/MLB-FCI-2016.pdf

Any way you look at it going to an O's game is cheaper than at least 20 (and depending on your ticket) maybe 25 other MLB teams. And that's with a 12% increase over last year. To sit in a "premium" seat (appears to be the equivalent of the Club Level) at Nat's Park it'll cost you more than double the rate at OPACY, $115 vs $50.

There are only relatively small handful of major pro sports teams in North America cheaper than the Orioles.

I don't doubt it....and overall, I honestly don't have any issue with their pricing. I just think the timing was poor considering the flood of new ST owners that came in 2015.

BUT.....for me, regardless of what they charge in comparison with others, when there are cheaper prices available on the secondary market, why pay $124 to go to a game that I can pay $100 to go to? That's the predicament that the Orioles are now in due to the recent price increase coupled with declining attendance.

I have seen legit bargains on SH for every game I've searched in the last couple of weeks.....in a playoff race....except today's game. I could go today for $5 over STO pricing.....and closer to game time, I bet the bargains pop up. Any non-STO would be a fool to buy a ticket from the Orioles.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't doubt it....and overall, I honestly don't have any issue with their pricing. I just think the timing was poor considering the flood of new ST owners that came in 2015.

BUT.....for me, regardless of what they charge, when there are cheaper prices available on the secondary market, why pay $124 to go to a game that I can pay $100 to go to? That's the predicament that the Orioles are now in due to the recent price increase coupled with declining attendance.

I have seen legit bargains on SH for every game I've searched in the last couple of weeks.....in a playoff race....except today's game. I could go today for $5 over STO pricing. Any non-STO would be a fool to buy a ticket from the Orioles.

I think they should be using secondary market pricing as an input to their model. But they may think selling fewer higher priced tickets brings in more revenues than more cheap tickets.

If you can get $50 face value tickets for $30 on Stubhub or from some dude on the sidewalk you'd be silly to pay $50. The Orioles' real market-driven average ticket price might be one of the very lowest in baseball.

And I think I've said this before, but pricing is only part of it. If the O's gave my family free box seats for all 81 games I might go to one game a month. Two kids, busy schedules, two hours+ each way, and Tuesday games ain't happening without ridiculous incentives.

[Going Underground]

Look here: https://www.teammarketing.com/public/uploadedPDFs/MLB-FCI-2016.pdf

Any way you look at it going to an O's game is cheaper than at least 20 (and depending on your ticket) maybe 25 other MLB teams. And that's with a 12% increase over last year. To sit in a "premium" seat (appears to be the equivalent of the Club Level) at Nat's Park it'll cost you more than double the rate at OPACY, $115 vs $50.

There are only relatively small handful of major pro sports teams in North America cheaper than the Orioles.

16 other teams have cheaper average ticket prices. The FCI is not a good indicator for the Orioles. They show a soft drink and hot dog for $1.50 each. Those are kids prices and I don't think most fans are paying that. So if you take the $12.00 cost they show and make it what it costs most people around $36.00 ,it raises the TCI by $24.00. Still cheaper then most teams but closer to the MLB average.

[BergerKing]

I just want to make sure you guys are adding in Stub Hub fee's to your totals. Those are not shown until the end. There have been plenty of times I have seen a ticket listed at less than Orioles season holder price but after fee's its more expensive. I have a 29 game plan and I think Saturday will be my 10th game. Use the tools the Orioles supply you to build your own custom plan. You can do almost everything from behind the keyboard in a short amount of time. Its not hard to figure out what the most in demand games will be. Exchange tickets for those games

and put them on Stub Hub. As long as you do not get greedy and just charge enough to get your money back.

[SteveA]

I think CPO861 is also onto something. The emergence of the secondary market, and especially the ease of transferring tickets via electronic means, in the past few years, has changed a lot of things.

I had 1 or 2 partial season ticket plans from the last few years at Memorial through the first 13 years at OPACY. I gave up my season ticket plan for a few reasons. Some were personal (my "crew" that I hung out with and went to a lot of games lost interest or ability to go to many games due to getting married, having kids, or just losing interest in baseball. So I often couldn't find people to go to games with, the last year I had a 13 game plan I think I went to 4 or 5 alone).

Also, of course, you didn't NEED to get season tickets to get a decent seat. My last 13 game plan was in Section 360 Row AA -- front row of the upper deck, just down the 3rd base line. When I first bought the season tickets, those were all season ticket seats. By the time I ended the plan, you could walk up and get seats in that section on the day of most games. I no longer needed season tickets to sit in half decent seats any time I actually could find someone to go to the game with.

So that snowballs... people no longer NEED to buy season tickets to get decent seats, due to the end of the sellout streak, the years of losing, etc. Now its even easier to get tickets via the secondary market for less than cost.

Most of those tickets you get on the secondary market are season tickets that someone can't use. So now the "walkup" crowd, who used to get tickets at the box office day of game, is going to Stubhub and buying a ticket that is ALREADY counted in the paid attendance!

Don't have an easy solution. The teams leading in attendance are probably all teams that are close to sellouts a decent amount of the time, where there is still incentive to buy a season ticket package. There's a "threshold of emptiness" that you pass where suddenly the place isn't packed, people know they don't have to buy season tickets, so they don't. Then it is a lot easier to either not go to the game because there's a 20% chance of rain or they might have to work late or the kids might not want to or whatever. Or if you do decide to go to a game, you might go to Stubhub and purchase someone's season ticket so you are not increasing the paid attendance at all.

Also, if you and your buddy want to go to a game next Thursday... you can plan on just being able to get tickets next Thursday. You know they will be available, plentiful, and chaeap. So in addition to not buying season tickets, you aren't even buying next Thursday's tickets today when you and your buddy make the decision to go. You know you can wait. So you wait. And then if it might rain, or you work an extra half hour, you can bail and go home and watch on the big screen.

It seems to me that you will wind up with haves and have nots. The haves have big markets, or at least high demand for their smallish stadium, and will sell a lot of season tickets. As a result there won't be as many extra seats available so people will make their own "plan" by buying individual game tickets in advance, either before the season or long enough before the game that they can be sure to get what they want. And those stadiums will be nearly full.

Then the have nots won't sell many season tickets, because there isn't a big incentive to do so. They won't even sell a large # of individual tickets in advance because there is no need to buy in advance to lock down decent seats. Then a myriad of factors from weather to team performance to civic unrest to not wanting to see Miley pitch to personal circumstances will cut down on the # of people who decide to go to a game on a one-off basis. They didn't lock themselves in by getting tickets in advance because they don't have to. And the have nots will have half empty stadiums.

It could become an ugly situation.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think CPO861 is also onto something. The emergence of the secondary market, and especially the ease of transferring tickets via electronic means, in the past few years, has changed a lot of things.

I had 1 or 2 partial season ticket plans from the last few years at Memorial through the first 13 years at OPACY. I gave up my season ticket plan for a few reasons. Some were personal (my "crew" that I hung out with and went to a lot of games lost interest or ability to go to many games due to getting married, having kids, or just losing interest in baseball. So I often couldn't find people to go to games with, the last year I had a 13 game plan I think I went to 4 or 5 alone).

Also, of course, you didn't NEED to get season tickets to get a decent seat. My last 13 game plan was in Section 360 Row AA -- front row of the upper deck, just down the 3rd base line. When I first bought the season tickets, those were all season ticket seats. By the time I ended the plan, you could walk up and get seats in that section on the day of most games. I no longer needed season tickets to sit in half decent seats any time I actually could find someone to go to the game with.

So that snowballs... people no longer NEED to buy season tickets to get decent seats, due to the end of the sellout streak, the years of losing, etc. Now its even easier to get tickets via the secondary market for less than cost.

Most of those tickets you get on the secondary market are season tickets that someone can't use. So now the "walkup" crowd, who used to get tickets at the box office day of game, is going to Stubhub and buying a ticket that is ALREADY counted in the paid attendance!

Don't have an easy solution. The teams leading in attendance are probably all teams that are close to sellouts a decent amount of the time, where there is still incentive to buy a season ticket package. There's a "threshold of emptiness" that you pass where suddenly the place isn't packed, people know they don't have to buy season tickets, so they don't. Then it is a lot easier to either not go to the game because there's a 20% chance of rain or they might have to work late or the kids might not want to or whatever. Or if you do decide to go to a game, you might go to Stubhub and purchase someone's season ticket so you are not increasing the paid attendance at all.

Also, if you and your buddy want to go to a game next Thursday... you can plan on just being able to get tickets next Thursday. You know they will be available, plentiful, and chaeap. So in addition to not buying season tickets, you aren't even buying next Thursday's tickets today when you and your buddy make the decision to go. You know you can wait. So you wait. And then if it might rain, or you work an extra half hour, you can bail and go home and watch on the big screen.

It seems to me that you will wind up with haves and have nots. The haves have big markets, or at least high demand for their smallish stadium, and will sell a lot of season tickets. As a result there won't be as many extra seats available so people will make their own "plan" by buying individual game tickets in advance, either before the season or long enough before the game that they can be sure to get what they want. And those stadiums will be nearly full.

Then the have nots won't sell many season tickets, because there isn't a big incentive to do so. They won't even sell a large # of individual tickets in advance because there is no need to buy in advance to lock down decent seats. Then a myriad of factors from weather to team performance to civic unrest to not wanting to see Miley pitch to personal circumstances will cut down on the # of people who decide to go to a game on a one-off basis. They didn't lock themselves in by getting tickets in advance because they don't have to. And the have nots will have half empty stadiums.

It could become an ugly situation.

If OPACY was built today it would have about 35000 seats. Maybe less. And if demand went to 40k they'd raise prices. For all the reasons you state. There may not be another 50k seater in baseball built in my lifetime.

Remember when the Indians played at Municipal Stadium, which probably seated 80k, and drew 8k a game? You could walk up on a random Wednesday and buy 60,000 tickets for that night's game.

[Going Underground]

If OPACY was built today it would have about 35000 seats. Maybe less. And if demand went to 40k they'd raise prices. For all the reasons you state. There may not be another 50k seater in baseball built in my lifetime.

Remember when the Indians played at Municipal Stadium, which probably seated 80k, and drew 8k a game? You could walk up on a random Wednesday and buy 60,000 tickets for that night's game.

Mistake by the lake. Hugeeeee.

[BergerKing]

I am sure they will build more of those rooftop seats in center field. They charge like $40 for them and they are always sold out!

[DrungoHazewood]

I am sure they will build more of those rooftop seats in center field. They charge like $40 for them and they are always sold out!

I always thought they should put a few rows up on top of the Warehouse.