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Roch: Orioles picked to finish fourth or fifth in AL East


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3 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Correct.  On paper, the Red Sox traded offense for pitching and with the defense they can field, Chris Sale is set to have an enormous year.  We thought that about David Price though too, didn't we?  (he was still a 3-win pitcher)

Fangraphs had Price at 4.5 wins.  I'm not a fan of rWAR for pitchers.  He was easily worth the $30MM he got paid.

 

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24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think the bolded sentence is the key.    The starting pitching could be anywhere from well above average to well below average.    If it's the former, we'll be legit contenders IMO.    The odds of that happening aren't that high, but it wouldn't shock me, either.    Playing some defense in the outfield would help.    Our staff last year looked worse than it actually was, due to the limited range of our outfielders.    

I saw something this week that said we had the worst outfield defense...in the league? or majors.  I can believe the league, can't believe the majors (though we probably weren't far from the bottom).  

Yes, some outfield defense this offseason would be nice.  

 

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39 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

We can keep debating how good or bad the other teams are, that's fine.  I like the posts about who the division has lost, but let's not forget that it's not as if we're the only ones that are affected by that, too.  Boston losing Ortiz isn't just good for us, it's good for NY and Toronto, too. 

We aren't markedly better in any way, shape or form from last year.  We aren't totally worse either.  We weren't worldbeaters, so I'm not sure where the swagger from some posters is coming from.  

IMO, we'll go as far as Gausman, Bundy and Tillman can take us.  That's not a bad 3 but I'd rather have Boston's staff and probably Toronto's, too.  The NY staff sure isn't great and neither is Tampa's.

As it stands, the issues that plague the offense still remain the same....low OBP, prone to bashing 5 homers and scoring 12 runs on Tuesday night and then striking out 10 times and getting shut out on Wednesday.  As long as that continues, this team isn't going far.

There's a lot to do between now and spring training, don't forget that our offseason really starts somewhere around the third week of January.  

But we can quibble back and forth on here about what sexy ass platoon we'll have in RF, what to do about Mancini, how we'll keep some Rule V game changers on our roster, what to do about Gallardo and Jimenez, how Kim should be used, the saga of Joey Rickard and of course, the saga of Manny Machado...and on and on and on... 

Honestly though, 81 wins, 85 wins, 88 wins...doesn't matter.  This team isn't currently constructed for a deep postseason run unless everything breaks right, IMO.  I'm happy for another year above .500 and another season removed from 1998-2011 but I don't see a team that makes anyone lose sleep at night when the staff is unproven or over the hill and you can get about any hitter in our lineup to whiff on a low and outside slider.  

I don't disagree with any of this.  But the OP was talking about the extremely bearish tone the national media likes to take about the Orioles every preseason.  While it's true that this team has some deficiencies that really hamper their ability to have postseason success, I also think it's absurd to predict that an 89 win team returning nearly everyone is somehow going to finish 4th or 5th in the AL East when the only AL East team that is arguably going to be better is the Red Sox (who finished ahead of us anyway last year).  So sure, maybe the Red Sox finish 10 games ahead of us instead of 5 next year, but I don't think it's likely that both the Yanks and Jays pass us.  The Yanks especially were huge overachievers last year, and toward the end of the season the league started figuring out all their sexy new prospects.  Seems a bit premature to expect the new-look Yankees to go win 90 in 2017.  

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2 hours ago, waroriole said:

I can see the Red Sox as the team to beat in the East, but they are nowhere near the clear cut favorite. Yes, they added Sale, but they lost Ortiz. Sounds like a wash to me. Plus, do we expect their young guys to have the same type of season as last year?

Also, don't discount Toronto. They've only lost EE. Could still resign Bautista.

I read somewhere today, maybe on here, that TOR and Joey are talking. I also saw they were sniffing around Pitt for Cutch.

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28 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Fangraphs had Price at 4.5 wins.  I'm not a fan of rWAR for pitchers.  He was easily worth the $30MM he got paid.

 

I think this a reason why some get frustrated with the way WAR is used.  The difference in value for Price between fWAR and rWAR is $12M if you use a 1 WAR = $8M.  That's a huge gap.  

Also Gausman had a better year than Price according to rWAR 4.1 - 3.  But was worse in fWAR 3 - 4.5.

My understanding (which is probably incorrect) is that fWAR either de-emphasizes things the pitcher can't control or emphasizes things he can control more so than rWAR.  Which is strange when you consider that Gausman pitches in front of an inferior defense and an inferior pitch framer.

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11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I saw something this week that said we had the worst outfield defense...in the league? or majors.  I can believe the league, can't believe the majors (though we probably weren't far from the bottom).  

Yes, some outfield defense this offseason would be nice.  

 

Totally agree.  Perhaps Tavarez can help in that regard.  And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would rather they sign Pagan than Trumbo if it has to be one or the other.  Unfortunately, sluggers with tin gloves are all super-cheap this offseason, so the O's are probably more likely to sign one of them than sign someone who can play some OF D.  

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55 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

I think this a reason why some get frustrated with the way WAR is used.  The difference in value for Price between fWAR and rWAR is $12M if you use a 1 WAR = $8M.  That's a huge gap.  

Also Gausman had a better year than Price according to rWAR 4.1 - 3.  But was worse in fWAR 3 - 4.5.

My understanding (which is probably incorrect) is that fWAR either de-emphasizes things the pitcher can't control or emphasizes things he can control more so than rWAR.  Which is strange when you consider that Gausman pitches in front of an inferior defense and an inferior pitch framer.

As Bob Weir says "Thas right."

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9 hours ago, scOtt said:

I read somewhere today, maybe on here, that TOR and Joey are talking. I also saw they were sniffing around Pitt for Cutch.

I read both things as well. Joey cant throw and something bad happened to Andrew. Maybe just aging. 

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It's the same story every year. I think finishing higher than 4th or 5th depends on our pitching. Can Gausman and Bundy build off of last year and improve, can Tillman repeat last season, and can can the bullpen be as good or better as last season. The 4th and 5th rotation spots are probably going to be a big question mark all season, and we have to hope to get something good out of Miley, Ubaldo, Gallardo, Wright, Wilson, or whoever else may get a turn to start.

The Red Sox will be good with the addition of Sale and should win the East, but they lost Ortiz and need a repeat of career years from Porcello and pretty much everyone in their lineup.

The Yankees and Blue Jays have both lost players without really adding much to replace them, and if they go into the season with pretty much the same rosters I think they both win a few less games this year. The Rays haven't improved much either and should finish 5th.

I'm ready to prove the "experts" wrong again.

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  • PaulFolk changed the title to Roch: Orioles picked to finish fourth or fifth in AL East

One year the prognosticators will be inevitably right and can brag obnoxiously about it. Until that fine day in the future, why does anybody pay the slightest attention to them? I know why! Winter days are short and bleak and any baseball distraction, however silly and meaningless, is welcome. 

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  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
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