Enough is enough, Tillman does not need another start

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If he can't feel it, he is not hurt. He just stinks. That happens when people get old. 

I gave you rep for this post because he is throwing to hard to be injured. With that said Britton is only 29 so that not his problem either. His mechanics are a mess and he's throwing way too many balls darts outside the zone.

[LC_O's_87]

I love people lamenting the error by Beckham (which shouldn't happen) and ignoring the fact Tillman benefited from a triple play the inning before.

8.10 ERA in 66.2 IP.  You really don't need to say anything more than that.

He's hurting the team.  gotta take him out of the rotation.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

How do you explain a 95 MPH fastball that you claimed was hurt?

mechanics are a miss probably due to missing so much time, and not being right.

he looks lost right now ....The missed double play was huge and if you think otherwise you've never played organized sports. The guy had to be thinking that he made the pitch and the fielder booted it. Same thing happened to Britton a few weeks ago when he was charged 2 runs when Tejada couldn't handle the liner right at him.

I disagree. There have been studies since he's been back regarding his arm slot. If he has a shoulder injury, it makes sense that his mechanics are being affected by this injury. You can have inflammation without pain. He may believe he feels fine, but he's got a bum shoulder. Velocity is not everything.

[Roll Tide]

27 minutes ago, interloper said:

I disagree. There have been studies since he's been back regarding his arm slot. If he has a shoulder injury, it makes sense that his mechanics are being affected by this injury. You can have inflammation without pain. He may believe he feels fine, but he's got a bum shoulder. Velocity is not everything.

Wow ...ok waste of time discussing

 

i was a pitcher blew out my rotator cuff and had a slap tear(labrum). With all due respect you don't know what you are talking about.

He wouldn't be throwing 95 MPH. He might be coaxed into a DL stint rather than a release or benching to get his mechanics on track. Probably his best get at this point.

[Lucky_13]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

We have 6 starters so DL'ing Tillman doesn't require another move

I still like the six man rotation because Ubaldo works better on extra rest and Bundy is nearing his innings limits.

[Frobby]

45 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The ball through Becham's legs is just bad luck for Tillman and clearly hurts him when he was struggling.

No question the blown DP hurt a lot.    But otherwise the inning was single, walk, walk, (blown DP), wild pitch, double.   The inning before was double, single, triple play that bailed him out of a jam.   The first inning featured two homers in five batters.    Excluding the error, he faced 12 batters and allowed two homers, two doubles, two singles and two walks.   That's completely unacceptable.  

[Roll Tide]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No question the blown DP hurt a lot.    But otherwise the inning was single, walk, walk, (blown DP), wild pitch, double.   The inning before was double, single, triple play that bailed him out of a jam.   The first inning featured two homers in five batters.    Excluding the error, he faced 12 batters and allowed two homers, two doubles, two singles and two walks.   That's completely unacceptable.  

Don't disagree ... but maybe he doesn't over pressure himself with two outs and he could pitch around Cabrera with 2 outs and a man on3B.

[interloper]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

No question the blown DP hurt a lot.    But otherwise the inning was single, walk, walk, (blown DP), wild pitch, double.   The inning before was double, single, triple play that bailed him out of a jam.   The first inning featured two homers in five batters.    Excluding the error, he faced 12 batters and allowed two homers, two doubles, two singles and two walks.   That's completely unacceptable.  

He's averaging nearly 20 base runners per 9 innings.

[FlipTheBird]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

How do you explain a 95 MPH fastball that you claimed was hurt?

mechanics are a miss probably due to missing so much time, and not being right.

he looks lost right now ....The missed double play was huge and if you think otherwise you've never played organized sports. The guy had to be thinking that he made the pitch and the fielder booted it. Same thing happened to Britton a few weeks ago when he was charged 2 runs when Tejada couldn't handle the liner right at him.

I've played plenty of organized sports and still do.

You don't have to lose velocity to have something wrong with you, physically.

Chris Tillman has been awful ALL SEASON. He's allowed 136 baserunners in 66.2 innings. He has also allowed 16 homers in those 66.2 innings. That'd work out to about 50 over a 200 inning campaign. The guy is toast and needs to be shutdown.

[FlipTheBird]

2 hours ago, LC_O's_87 said:

I love people lamenting the error by Beckham (which shouldn't happen) and ignoring the fact Tillman benefited from a triple play the inning before.

8.10 ERA in 66.2 IP.  You really don't need to say anything more than that.

He's hurting the team.  gotta take him out of the rotation.

He's been awful all year, and was awful for the entirety of his performance last night. He'd put 7 guys on base BEFORE Beckham made an error. In 2 IP. Then he put another guy on base right away afterwards.

[FlipTheBird]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

No question the blown DP hurt a lot.    But otherwise the inning was single, walk, walk, (blown DP), wild pitch, double.   The inning before was double, single, triple play that bailed him out of a jam.   The first inning featured two homers in five batters.    Excluding the error, he faced 12 batters and allowed two homers, two doubles, two singles and two walks.   That's completely unacceptable.  

If we give him a few more starts he may break Matusz's ERA record.

[Three Run Homer]

He is having one of the worst seasons by a starting pitcher in (at least) the last decade.  

I've gone through Baseball Reference back to 2007 in search of pitchers with comparable seasons.  So far nobody with 15 or more starts has an ERA worse than Tillman's 8.10.   The closest contender is Jonathan Sanchez in 2012, who compiled an 8.07 ERA and a 1-9 record in 15 starts (64.2 IP).   Some other notably bad seasons:

2016: Jose Barrios (!), Twins, 8.08 ERA in 14 starts, 58 IP.  Alfredo Simon, Reds, 9.36 ERA in 11 starts (15 games), 58.2 IP

2012:  Daisuke Matsuzaka, Red Sox, 8.28 ERA in 11 starts, 42.2 IP

2011:  Brian Matusz, O's, 10.69 ERA in 12 starts (49.2 IP)

2010, Charlie Morton, Pirates, 7.57 ERA in 17 starts (79.2 IP)

2009:  Rich Hill, O's, 7.80 ERA in 13 starts (14 games), 57.2 IP; Chien-Ming Wang, MFYs, 9.64 ERA in 9 starts (12 G), 42 IP

2008:  Greg Reynolds, Rockies, 8.13 ERA in 13 starts (14 G), 62 IP; Luis Mendoza, Rangers, 8.67 ERA in 11 starts (25 G), 63.1 IF

2007:  Jon Van Benschoten, Pirates, 10.15 ERA in 9 starts (11 G), 39 IP, Phil Dumatrait, Reds, 15.00 ERA (wow!) in 6 starts, 18 IP

So what is to be done?  If he says he is not hurt, then you have to take him at face value.  I would put him in the bullpen as a long reliever (strictly mop up) rather than release him.  It costs you a roster spot for the rest of this month, but he has been a great Oriole and he should be treated with a little class.  

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Three Run Homer said:

He is having one of the worst seasons by a starting pitcher in (at least) the last decade.  

I've gone through Baseball Reference back to 2007 in search of pitchers with comparable seasons.  So far nobody with 15 or more starts has an ERA worse than Tillman's 8.10.   The closest contender is Jonathan Sanchez in 2012, who compiled an 8.07 ERA and a 1-9 record in 15 starts (64.2 IP).   Some other notably bad seasons:

2016: Jose Barrios (!), Twins, 8.08 ERA in 14 starts, 58 IP.  Alfredo Simon, Reds, 9.36 ERA in 11 starts (15 games), 58.2 IP

2012:  Daisuke Matsuzaka, Red Sox, 8.28 ERA in 11 starts, 42.2 IP

2011:  Brian Matusz, O's, 10.69 ERA in 12 starts (49.2 IP)

2010, Charlie Morton, Pirates, 7.57 ERA in 17 starts (79.2 IP)

2009:  Rich Hill, O's, 7.80 ERA in 13 starts (14 games), 57.2 IP; Chien-Ming Wang, MFYs, 9.64 ERA in 9 starts (12 G), 42 IP

2008:  Greg Reynolds, Rockies, 8.13 ERA in 13 starts (14 G), 62 IP; Luis Mendoza, Rangers, 8.67 ERA in 11 starts (25 G), 63.1 IF

2007:  Jon Van Benschoten, Pirates, 10.15 ERA in 9 starts (11 G), 39 IP, Phil Dumatrait, Reds, 15.00 ERA (wow!) in 6 starts, 18 IP

So what is to be done?  If he says he is not hurt, then you have to take him at face value.  I would put him in the bullpen as a long reliever (strictly mop up) rather than release him.  It costs you a roster spot for the rest of this month, but he has been a great Oriole and he should be treated with a little class.  

I agree ...Get him somewhere where he can work on his mechanics.

[FlipTheBird]

9 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

He is having one of the worst seasons by a starting pitcher in (at least) the last decade.  

I've gone through Baseball Reference back to 2007 in search of pitchers with comparable seasons.  So far nobody with 15 or more starts has an ERA worse than Tillman's 8.10.   The closest contender is Jonathan Sanchez in 2012, who compiled an 8.07 ERA and a 1-9 record in 15 starts (64.2 IP).   Some other notably bad seasons:

2016: Jose Barrios (!), Twins, 8.08 ERA in 14 starts, 58 IP.  Alfredo Simon, Reds, 9.36 ERA in 11 starts (15 games), 58.2 IP

2012:  Daisuke Matsuzaka, Red Sox, 8.28 ERA in 11 starts, 42.2 IP

2011:  Brian Matusz, O's, 10.69 ERA in 12 starts (49.2 IP)

2010, Charlie Morton, Pirates, 7.57 ERA in 17 starts (79.2 IP)

2009:  Rich Hill, O's, 7.80 ERA in 13 starts (14 games), 57.2 IP; Chien-Ming Wang, MFYs, 9.64 ERA in 9 starts (12 G), 42 IP

2008:  Greg Reynolds, Rockies, 8.13 ERA in 13 starts (14 G), 62 IP; Luis Mendoza, Rangers, 8.67 ERA in 11 starts (25 G), 63.1 IF

2007:  Jon Van Benschoten, Pirates, 10.15 ERA in 9 starts (11 G), 39 IP, Phil Dumatrait, Reds, 15.00 ERA (wow!) in 6 starts, 18 IP

So what is to be done?  If he says he is not hurt, then you have to take him at face value.  I would put him in the bullpen as a long reliever (strictly mop up) rather than release him.  It costs you a roster spot for the rest of this month, but he has been a great Oriole and he should be treated with a little class.  

That we're about to add a third guy to that list hurts.

As for an injury - I don't think you necessarily have to take him at face value. Sure, you can't DL him for no reason, but I'd be subjecting him to a bevy of tests to see if anything looks off.

I'd agree that there's no real reason to DFA him when you're a month away from expanded rosters anyway. Plop him out in the pen and hope that he rarely, if ever, has to be called upon before Sept. 1.

[NedFromYork]

Castro went six innings.  Is he stretched out and an SP option now?