O's trade surplus could come from left field

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I've noticed several posts where you've called him Beckman.    Is it an autocorrect thing?

I could imagine a scenario where a team trades a guy who is overpaid to us for one of our corner OF prospects.   

Just stupidity on my part.   Its not meant to be offensive.  That name is just stuck in my head.   I will try to do better.  I have corrected myself several times.

I can see the scenario.

 

[mdbdotcom]

29 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Oh, I think the Rays believed Beckman was a major leaguer.   Beckman believed then and believes now that he is a starting SS.  The Rays were not on the same page with that and had him as a platoon 2B.

Sorry, you're way off here. The Rays wanted to get rid of Beckham (not Beckman). Period.

[wildcard]

Just now, mdbdotcom said:

Sorry, you're way off here. The Rays wanted to get rid of Beckham (not Beckman). Period.

Yes, but I think they thought he  was a major leaguer.  But he was a pain in the butt to them because he didn't like being a platoon 2b. And that is how they were using him.

[mdbdotcom]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Yes, but I think they thought he  was a major leaguer.  But he was a pain in the butt to them because he didn't like being a platoon 2b. And that is how they were using him.

Once the Rays acquired Duda, days before the Beckham deal, the only place for Miller to play was 2B.

"We've got to get Brad Miller going and wanted to give him a little bit of a clearer path to get going. He's going to be out there, and we all saw what he's capable of, saw what he did last year (30 homers) and we're banking on that for these next two months." - Kevin Cash

They had no room for Beckham on their team.

[jabba72]

44 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Oh, I think the Rays believed Beckman was a major leaguer.   Beckman believed then and believes now that he is a starting SS.  The Rays were not on the same page with that and had him as a platoon 2B.

The market for minor league corner OF's is not the same as minor league SP either.  The O's definitely appear to have gotten an every day infielder,  regardless of the questions at SS. Will other teams trade a #3 starting pitcher for a corner OF? Or what about a near ready AAA or established SS? I think the O's would like to upgrade SS.   

[wildcard]

25 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Once the Rays acquired Duda, days before the Beckham deal, the only place for Miller to play was 2B.

"We've got to get Brad Miller going and wanted to give him a little bit of a clearer path to get going. He's going to be out there, and we all saw what he's capable of, saw what he did last year (30 homers) and we're banking on that for these next two months." - Kevin Cash

They had no room for Beckham on their team.

I agree with that. What I don't agree with is you saying that the Rays didn't think Beckham is a major leaguer.   I think they knew he was a major leaguer but they didn't like his defense at SS (while Beckham insists he is a major league ss).   When they moved Beckham to 2nd he would have been a platoon player with Millar but the Rays decided they wanted Miller full time at 2B.  The Rays thought Beckman on the bench was bad thing for the team because he would have reacted poorly to the demotion.   Thus the Ray traded a guy they knew was a major leaguer but did not fit with them anymore.

[wildcard]

24 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

The market for minor league corner OF's is not the same as minor league SP either.  The O's definitely appear to have gotten an every day infielder,  regardless of the questions at SS. Will other teams trade a #3 starting pitcher for a corner OF? Or what about a near ready AAA or established SS? I think the O's would like to upgrade SS.   

How about a minor league left fielder, slot money and another A ball player?

 Mountcastle maybe the BA's 100 or close to it.   Santander after playing in the AFL and maybe in winter ball could look attractive.   Stewart is a #1 draft choice coming off a good season. Rifaela just won the Carolina league MVP award.

[mdbdotcom]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I agree with that. What I don't agree with is you saying that the Rays didn't think Beckham is a major leaguer.   I think they knew he was a major leaguer but they didn't like his defense at SS (while Beckham insists he is a major league ss).   When they moved Beckham to 2nd he would have been a platoon player with Millar but the Rays decided they wanted Miller full time at 2B.  The Rays thought Beckman on the bench was bad thing for the team because he would have reacted poorly to the demotion.   Thus the Ray traded a guy they knew was a major leaguer but did not fit with them anymore.

Good grief. It still supports my statement that how how the trading team feels about the player they are trading matters as well.

If you want to say that the Rays considered a guy they didn't want to start at SS or 2B or use off the bench to be a major leaguer anyway, fine. Have it your way.

My point was that two teams can see different value in a player, and that difference in perception can sometimes allow you to get a guy for a lot less (or, a lot more) than he ends up being worth.

[weams]

23 hours ago, wildcard said:

Mancini is the present left fielder and since the O's are looking to go for it in 2018,  he is likely to stay there.    If the O's can find a way to trade Trumbo, Pedro Alvarez is more likely to be the O's DH next year than Mancini.  The O's need to add a lefty to the lineup with Smith leaving and that could be Pedro.   Jones and Hays who man center and right are right-handed.

Santander is a Rule 5 guy.  He could be traded but the acquiring club would have to keep him on the roster for 46 days.  He is outfield depth at present and could project as a right or left fielder or DH.

DJ Stewart projects as a left field.   #1 drat choice who's stock is on the rise,  He could be traded.

Mullins is a CF and the O's probably want to hold on to him as Adams  replacement in Center at some point.

Rafaela  is the Carolina league MVP as a left fielder.  I would think he is tradable and needs to be added to the 40 roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. 

Rickard projects as a 4th outifielder who was outplayed this year by Gentry.   He could start the year in AAA and be called up when needed.   He has little trade value.

Gentry is a cheap backup outfielder that could be resigned as a free agent.

Mountcastle has trade value because he can hit and may not have the arm for 3B.   He may project as a left fielder.    He could be a trade chip.

So the O's are well stocked at left field and this could be an area that trades are made from.   Especially since Dan wants to keep Britton and Brach.  I think he made extend Brach this off season so as not be lose him.  Britton as a Boras client probably can't be extended.

So look for talks about Santander, Stewart, Rafaela and Mountcastle for pitching this off season in my guess.   Trumbo for a bad contract pitcher is also something  that is probably desirable for an O's trade.  JM

 

I don't see it.  I don't see the chaff and minor league guys bringing much. 

[weams]

18 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Good grief. It still supports my statement that how how the trading team feels about the player they are trading matters as well.

If you want to say that the Rays considered a guy they didn't want to start at SS or 2B or use off the bench to be a major leaguer anyway, fine. Have it your way.

My point was that two teams can see different value in a player, and that difference in perception can sometimes allow you to get a guy for a lot less (or, a lot more) than he ends up being worth.

I agree. 

[wildcard]

26 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Good grief. It still supports my statement that how how the trading team feels about the player they are trading matters as well.

If you want to say that the Rays considered a guy they didn't want to start at SS or 2B or use off the bench to be a major leaguer anyway, fine. Have it your way.

My point was that two teams can see different value in a player, and that difference in perception can sometimes allow you to get a guy for a lot less (or, a lot more) than he ends up being worth.

Now we agree.

[mdbdotcom]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Now we agree.

And it's basically what I said in my very first statement.

Quote

It also depends on the other team's perception of the player they are giving up. The Rays wanted to get rid of Beckham. The O's saw Beckham as a major leaguer; the Rays did not.

You could have simply replaced the words "major leaguer" with "impact player" or "potentially important piece" or "someone they wanted on their team" but you decided to pick nits. You grabbed hold of the least important statement and made it a point of disagreement. Was it worth it? Did you get something out of that? 

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, mdbdotcom said:

And it's basically what I said in my very first statement.

You could have simply replaced the words "major leaguer" with "impact player" or "potentially important piece" or "someone they wanted on their team" but you decided to pick nits. You grabbed hold of the least important statement and made it a point of disagreement. Was it worth it? Did you get something out of that? 

Honestly, I thought I was just having a discussion with another O's fan on the hangout.  I did not know it meant so much to you.  Sorry to upset you.    Peace.

[sportsfan8703]

On 10/5/2017 at 5:08 PM, wildcard said:

Mancini is the present left fielder and since the O's are looking to go for it in 2018,  he is likely to stay there.    If the O's can find a way to trade Trumbo, Pedro Alvarez is more likely to be the O's DH next year than Mancini.  The O's need to add a lefty to the lineup with Smith leaving and that could be Pedro.   Jones and Hays who man center and right are right-handed.

Santander is a Rule 5 guy.  He could be traded but the acquiring club would have to keep him on the roster for 46 days.  He is outfield depth at present and could project as a right or left fielder or DH.

DJ Stewart projects as a left field.   #1 drat choice who's stock is on the rise,  He could be traded.

Mullins is a CF and the O's probably want to hold on to him as Adams  replacement in Center at some point.

Rafaela  is the Carolina league MVP as a left fielder.  I would think he is tradable and needs to be added to the 40 roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. 

Rickard projects as a 4th outifielder who was outplayed this year by Gentry.   He could start the year in AAA and be called up when needed.   He has little trade value.

Gentry is a cheap backup outfielder that could be resigned as a free agent.

Mountcastle has trade value because he can hit and may not have the arm for 3B.   He may project as a left fielder.    He could be a trade chip.

So the O's are well stocked at left field and this could be an area that trades are made from.   Especially since Dan wants to keep Britton and Brach.  I think he made extend Brach this off season so as not be lose him.  Britton as a Boras client probably can't be extended.

So look for talks about Santander, Stewart, Rafaela and Mountcastle for pitching this off season in my guess.   Trumbo for a bad contract pitcher is also something  that is probably desirable for an O's trade.  JM

 

Sounds good. I just don't know if these guys have enough trade value to bring back a SP. They can be extremely valuable to us considering we will have a near 100 million $ IF if Manny and Schoop stay. 

In a perfect world this team could trade Trumbo and O'day and invest that money into re signing Manny and Schoop and SP. 

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Sounds good. I just don't know if these guys have enough trade value to bring back a SP. They can be extremely valuable to us considering we will have a near 100 million $ IF if Manny and Schoop stay. 

In a perfect world this team could trade Trumbo and O'day and invest that money into re signing Manny and Schoop and SP. 

I think O'Day is easily tradeable.    He came on strong in the second half, and with his track record I think there are several teams that would take on his salary to bolster their bullpen.