Slow Offseason around MLB

[Yardball85]

1 hour ago, weams said:

They have no value until they can show that they can play at the MLB level. None. It's fun to be a ballplayer. Very few of them are a return on investment. Sorry, those are facts. 

mlbdotcom said they are valuable and should make more money.  But their value comes from being under control for six years and not making a lot of money. They wouldn't be valuable if they made a lot of money.

[Chavez Ravine]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

In both cases, the teams aren’t spending 2-6 years developing those players (and lots of other players who don’t make it).   If these guys were jumping straight from college to MLB with no investment by the team, their case for a shorter path to free agency would be better.   

I wonder how much of that development time is just a product of the particular price control system the owners and union have come up with.  If it was a free for all, would the only players that got contracts be the equivalent of the first couple of rounds in the draft? They'd spend 1-2 years in the development league, then its the show or a career filling out the roster in the development league.

[weams]

Just now, Yardball85 said:

mlbdotcom said they are valuable and should make more money.  But their value comes from being under control for six years and not making a lot of money. They wouldn't be valuable if they made a lot of money.

Especially when they are minor leaguers.  Shame. That's the business model. 

[spiritof66]

2 hours ago, Yardball85 said:

The reason prospects are so "valuable" is because they are so cheap.

Hey, guess what?  The good players who are precluded, through MLB's monopoly power and the collective bargaining agreement, from playing for MLB teams (or in their MiL systems)  other than the one that drafted them or acquired rights to them from the drafting team, often provide better value than good players who get to sell their services to any MLB team as free agents in a sort-of-free market.

IMO, the two most reliable ways to build a championship-caliber team are as follows:

1. Finish at or near the bottom of MLB teams for a few years, draft U.S. and international players who (through a combination of your skill at picking and developing them and good luck) develop into stars, and surround them with good players even if you have to sign them as free agencies for more than they're worth in adding wins. (If the wins that a few free agent veterans add take you from 86 to 94 wins, those eight wins are worth a whole lot -- to you.) 

2. Keep all the taps into player talent running: scouting, foreign development, minor league development, foreign free agency, stars from Japan and Cuba and ML free agents. Not everyone can afford to do all these things, and doing them is certainly no guaranty of success, but it will give teams that can afford to do it a significant leg up. 

  

[weams]

The way it works is that a lot of guys with almost good enough skills play for very little money to challenge the ones that have that bit more to develop. And hopefully, make generational wealth at some point. It's like Amway or Herbalife. 

[Yardball85]

36 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Hey, guess what?  The good players who are precluded, through MLB's monopoly power and the collective bargaining agreement, from playing for MLB teams (or in their MiL systems)  other than the one that drafted them or acquired rights to them from the drafting team, often provide better value than good players who get to sell their services to any MLB team as free agents in a sort-of-free market.

IMO, the two most reliable ways to build a championship-caliber team are as follows:

1. Finish at or near the bottom of MLB teams for a few years, draft U.S. and international players who (through a combination of your skill at picking and developing them and good luck) develop into stars, and surround them with good players even if you have to sign them as free agencies for more than they're worth in adding wins. (If the wins that a few free agent veterans add take you from 86 to 94 wins, those eight wins are worth a whole lot -- to you.) 

2. Keep all the taps into player talent running: scouting, foreign development, minor league development, foreign free agency, stars from Japan and Cuba and ML free agents. Not everyone can afford to do all these things, and doing them is certainly no guaranty of success, but it will give teams that can afford to do it a significant leg up. 

  

Exactly.  The six year and under players are supremely valuable because they are inexpensive.  Cease being inexpensive, and they aren't nearly as valuable on a dollar/talent basis.

[mdbdotcom]

56 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd save my outrage for the players' Union that not only won't negotiate for higher salaries for their brethren in the minors but actively cut their income by agreeing to spending Caps on the draft and the International market.

No outrage, really, just irony. But for years I've thought the union should expand to include minor league players and become the Professional Baseball Players Association.

[weams]

14 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Exactly.  The six year and under players are supremely valuable because they are inexpensive.  Cease being inexpensive, and they aren't nearly as valuable on a dollar/talent basis.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/02/mlb-hot-stove-freeze-reaches-a-dangerous-boiling-point/

[weams]

11 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

No outrage, really, just irony. But for years I've thought the union should expand to include minor league players and become the Professional Baseball Players Association.

The Union members are not interested in allowing the minor leaguers into the union. 

[weams]

12 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

No outrage, really, just irony. But for years I've thought the union should expand to include minor league players and become the Professional Baseball Players Association.

Would you expand it to include Independent leagues? Mexican Leagues, Japanese Leagues, Korean Leagues, Israeli Leagues. Austrailian Leagues?  Would all professional baseball players qualify?

[SteveA]

3 minutes ago, weams said:

The Union members are not interested in allowing the minor leaguers into the union. 

If they did, would they get equal votes?   Because they vastly outnumber major leaguers.  

[weams]

4 minutes ago, weams said:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/02/mlb-hot-stove-freeze-reaches-a-dangerous-boiling-point/

Quote

First of all, don’t bet your house, or even a roll of toilet paper in your house, on a spring-training boycott, which would represent a historically outrageous violation of the collective bargaining agreement. Suffice it to say not every agent — and hence not every player — is on board with this anger. So let’s shrug off the imminent threat and pivot to the animosity, fueled further by pace-of-play negotiations, which could pose a long-term headache.

 

 

[weams]

Just now, SteveA said:

If they did, would they get equal votes?   Because they vastly outnumber major leaguers.  

I know!

[mdbdotcom]

12 minutes ago, weams said:

Would you expand it to include Independent leagues? Mexican Leagues, Japanese Leagues, Korean Leagues, Israeli Leagues. Austrailian Leagues?  Would all professional baseball players qualify?

I know major league players want to limit representation to themselves. No, I would not immediately expand union membership beyond affiliated teams. But at some point, maybe players in other leagues in the USA could be added.

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, weams said:

The Union members are not interested in allowing the minor leaguers into the union. 

I'm fine with that.

I do have an issue when they collectively bargain money away from guys they won't let into the Union.

I don't like that they took money away from 16 year olds in the Dominican and High School kids.