This team is cooked

[LookitsPuck]

32 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Sure he does.  There are dozens of free or cheap veteran major and minor league starting pitchers  who would be an upgrade over Tillman.  Sisco should start over Caleb Joseph.  Trey Mancini or Pedro Alvarez can play first base and DJ Stewart or Michael Saunders can be called up to play in the outfield while Davis hits the bench.  

Mancini or Alvarez at first is a debacle waiting to happen. 

DJ Stewart is hitting 242 in AAA with a 333 SLG. 

Saunders slugged 345 last year. He's hitting 121 in AAA.

Sisco may be the future, but he's not exactly a good catcher defensively. Granted Caleb has taken a major step back this year defensively.

Tillman I agree. 

[nate22]

3 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

Because this is a forum for fans and fans can be fanatical...and this team is frustrating as all get out?

I invest time, energy and money into the team. Being perturbed that they continue to be an absolute dumpster fire isn’t unreasonable.

Dumpster fires are at least interesting to watch. I prefer to just call them a dumpster with no fire.

[allquixotic]

10 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Dempsey talking about how this team is going to make a "comeback".  What team is he watching?

I know a lot of it has been bad luck and poor performance, but I place part of the blame on Manny "I want to place SS because it's best for me" and Jones "I'm no longer a team leader."  The O's of the last few seasons were always better than their talent said they were.  This year's team is less than the sum of the parts.

The team has been terrible too.

 

Dempsey will say what his overlords in the front office tell him to say. He's an employee. The broadcasters and analysts retained by 105.7 and MASN are required to be propagandists for the team, deliberate homers (even if they don't personally believe the team is any good), to try and prop up fans' hopes for the team.

Because nobody wants to watch a terrible, losing team that has no chance of coming back, so they'll do anything they can to convince a few more people to show up at OPACY. I'm not saying they'll out and out lie, but they'll make claims -- like "this team can still make a comeback" -- that they don't believe is very likely. But they won't tell you just how unlikely it is. Instead, they'll let your imagination (and your hope) fill in the gaps, and hopefully sell a ticket.

It's all about the money. It has absolutely nothing to do with Dempsey's own feelings or true beliefs. In reality, I don't think even he is naive enough to believe that this team has any chance whatsoever to play even a wild card tie game in 2018. And 2019 won't be any better because we're losing many of our best players, and the front office won't re-sign them.

The very best possible outcome for the 2018 Orioles is a .500 season. And that, in itself, would be a colossal achievement, requiring a ton of luck and several weeks of multiple players playing well above their norm.

[sportsfan8703]

Jon Jay has a .375 OBP, .708 OPS

Colby Rasmus has 13 SO in 23 PA, and his bad hip is acting up. 

That was an easy decision. Jay wanted a promise of everyday ABs for two seasons. Done. Especially when you start Mullins and Hays in AA. 

Welington Castillo has a .757 OPS. 

Joseph is done. Castillo always seemed like a spark plug type player. Apparently we don’t care about defense. 

Francisco Liriano has 3 QS and a 2.55 ERA. 

All he wanted was a MLB guaranteed one year deal. We could have gave him that and got value from him just being a LOOGY if need be. Instead we went with Tillman and Nestor Cortes. 

Oh and Ryan Flaherty  

Not just cherry picking players here. These are guys(except Castillo) we were in on in late Feb/early March. 

It’s almost like we couldn’t get our 5 GMs do agree on them so we went with non roster guys and rule 5s. 

18 games in and no waiver claims?????  DD is always working the waiver wire. Last year he had acquired Castro, Faulkner, etc... by this poInt in the season. 

[Going Underground]

30 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Jon Jay has a .375 OBP, .708 OPS

Colby Rasmus has 13 SO in 23 PA, and his bad hip is acting up. 

That was an easy decision. Jay wanted a promise of everyday ABs for two seasons. Done. Especially when you start Mullins and Hays in AA. 

Welington Castillo has a .757 OPS. 

Joseph is done. Castillo always seemed like a spark plug type player. Apparently we don’t care about defense. 

Francisco Liriano has 3 QS and a 2.55 ERA. 

All he wanted was a MLB guaranteed one year deal. We could have gave him that and got value from him just being a LOOGY if need be. Instead we went with Tillman and Nestor Cortes. 

Oh and Ryan Flaherty  

Not just cherry picking players here. These are guys(except Castillo) we were in on in late Feb/early March. 

It’s almost like we couldn’t get our 5 GMs do agree on them so we went with non roster guys and rule 5s. 

18 games in and no waiver claims?????  DD is always working the waiver wire. Last year he had acquired Castro, Faulkner, etc... by this poInt in the season. 

Wellington does try to get his pitching staffs to get the worst or near the worst ERA in the majors. White Sox right now are #1.

[eddie83]

 

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Handled properly and with a bit of luck it could have been more of a continual reloading.

The way you wanted them to handle things I’m afraid was never a possibility with Peter Angelos as the owner. 

Hope his sons have seen first hand  over the course of 25 years what not to do.  

At this point just have to hope they make the most out of the trade deadline and the young players develop. 

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

 

The way you wanted them to handle things I’m afraid was never a possibility with Peter Angelos as the owner. 

Hope his sons have seen first hand  over the course of 25 years what not to do.  

At this point just have to hope they make the most out of the trade deadline and the young players develop. 

I agree that ownership is part of the problem.  I've given Dan a complete pass on trading the International slots for that reason.

 

[eddie83]

I think the team is stale. The position players set the tone. You have Jones slipping in CF, Davis is Davis, their best player is gone after the year. Beckham looks awful. Joseph is struggling. They aren’t this bad but there has been a deterioration. 

The club desparately needs an infusion of young talent into the everyday lineup. Sisco and Mancini are a start. They need to figure out what to do with Schoop this year. To repeat the Manny scenario like this year is foolish. 

I still say the easiest and cheapest way to improve the team is defensively. They have to be willing to eat a Trumbo contract to do this. Play Trey more at 1B, increase the athleticism in the OF. In the offseason they will need to fill some holes in the Infield. 

[glenn__davis]

15 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I think the team is stale. The position players set the tone. You have Jones slipping in CF, Davis is Davis, their best player is gone after the year. Beckham looks awful. Joseph is struggling. They aren’t this bad but there has been a deterioration. 

The club desparately needs an infusion of young talent into the everyday lineup. Sisco and Mancini are a start. They need to figure out what to do with Schoop this year. To repeat the Manny scenario like this year is foolish. 

I still say the easiest and cheapest way to improve the team is defensively. They have to be willing to eat a Trumbo contract to do this. Play Trey more at 1B, increase the athleticism in the OF. In the offseason they will need to fill some holes in the Infield. 

Absolutely, particularly in the OF.  There is help coming to improve the OF defense and athleticism.

The IF is a different story.  Looking at Tony's OH Top 30 prospects, there are 3 infielders listed.  2 of them - Jomar Reyes and Adam Hall - are in the lower minors and nowhere near the immediate horizon.  The 3rd, Mountcastle, is a guy that doesn't seem to have a position.  Maybe he's able to improve to a passable 3B.

If we do indeed end up trading away the few assets we have, we need to look to acquire back a few young middle IF prospects.  The rotation suddenly looks not terrible.  But the OF defense must improve.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Absolutely, particularly in the OF.  There is help coming to improve the OF defense and athleticism.

The IF is a different story.  Looking at Tony's OH Top 30 prospects, there are 3 infielders listed.  2 of them - Jomar Reyes and Adam Hall - are in the lower minors and nowhere near the immediate horizon.  The 3rd, Mountcastle, is a guy that doesn't seem to have a position.  Maybe he's able to improve to a passable 3B.

If we do indeed end up trading away the few assets we have, we need to look to acquire back a few young middle IF prospects.  The rotation suddenly looks not terrible.  But the OF defense must improve.

Reyes is also not a lock to stay in the infield.

[glenn__davis]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Reyes is also not a lock to stay in the infield.

Not at 3B, at least.  Regardless he needs to start hitting again and show the power that made him a highly touted prospect to start with before I get too concerned over that.  

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Not at 3B, at least.  Regardless he needs to start hitting again and show the power that made him a highly touted prospect to start with before I get too concerned over that.  

His arm would be wasted at first.

[glenn__davis]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

His arm would be wasted at first.

Have you seen him play live?  He's a big boy.  Doesn't look like someone who could play above average in the OF to me.  I think they're doing the right thing by giving him all the time to stick at 3rd, but regardless, he's not immediate help for 3B, SS or 2B.  Which was my original point.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Have you seen him play live?  He's a big boy.  Doesn't look like someone who could play above average in the OF to me.  I think they're doing the right thing by giving him all the time to stick at 3rd, but regardless, he's not immediate help for 3B, SS or 2B.  Which was my original point.

Why would the standard be above average?

Average in right with a plus arm would play fine if he hits.

But yes, I agree there is little infield help on the way.

[eddie83]

30 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Absolutely, particularly in the OF.  There is help coming to improve the OF defense and athleticism.

The IF is a different story.  Looking at Tony's OH Top 30 prospects, there are 3 infielders listed.  2 of them - Jomar Reyes and Adam Hall - are in the lower minors and nowhere near the immediate horizon.  The 3rd, Mountcastle, is a guy that doesn't seem to have a position.  Maybe he's able to improve to a passable 3B.

If we do indeed end up trading away the few assets we have, we need to look to acquire back a few young middle IF prospects.  The rotation suddenly looks not terrible.  But the OF defense must improve.

They are going to have to spend some money on short term deals to improve the infield this offseason unless of course they are able to address the issue via trade. 

Schoop to me maybe the biggest decision moving forward. 

Once again is the organization structured in a way to make these decisions? Who is the calling the shots?  The fact that we are asking these questions is yet another example of brutal ownership.

All teams at some point have to make difficult decisions but when you do you the right structure needs to be in place. I don’t think things are as bad as they look right now but I do question and worry over the right decisions being made moving forward. The Orioles can’t go back and change what they did wrong but they also don’t have to compound their mistakes either.