If Andy MacPhail was the O's GM....

[ShaneDawg85]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Let's not just talk Bedard.  How about getting Hardy for basically nothing.  Or Davis and Hunter for Koji.    MacPhail could squeeze more out of a trade than anyone I have seen.  Certainly more than Dan got.

Gausman has the stuff to be a much better pitcher than what he has been.  Sucky defense and offense to support him.  He will do much better in Atlanta where he has a better team around him.

Schoop doesn't have to play 2B for the rest of his career.  He has all the tools to play 3B very well.   He was the O's MVP last year.  32 HR and 105 RBI with  841 OPS as a middle infielder.   Pretty dare good.  He is 26 and signable for a  team that wants to sign him to a 5 or 6 year contract.

MacPhail would have gotten way more back than Dan did.

Didn't Duquette do that with Brad Brach?  Didn't half the bullpen come in from minimal trades or slot money?  How about signing Nate McLouth and Miguel Gonzalez out of nowhere?  Lets not act like Dan Duquette can't find guys to build a roster.

[atomic]

Everyone said how much easier it is to sell than to buy when comparing DD to MacPhail.  But then DD gets robbed in a sell-off.  Time to admit he is just bad at his job.  I think the Chen and Miquel signings were in the works before he got here.  There is a reason he was out of baseball for 10 years.  

[Redskins Rick]

28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Yeah, not sure where you are coming from here.

Neither Gausman or Schoop are Bedard level players.

Although I would have liked to have seen at least one impact guy gotten in return, neither player's value was going to much higher than they are right now.

Let's face it with Gausman. He's really a #4 pitcher, maybe #3 at best. He'll pitch better in the NL because they only have to pitch to 7 major league hitters out of 9 in the lineup (#8 guy gets waked a lot in order to pitch to the pitcher) but he was not going to be a guy you extend so might as well move him.

As for Schoop, he has major red flags for plate discipline and his range will only diminish as he gets older. I loved watching Schoop for the Orioles, but he was free agent next year and if the Orioles want him back after next year he'll be a free agent and they'll have money to spend (not saying they would do it).

Let's face it, MacPhail made one great trade with the Mariners for Bedard. I think the Orioles got a decent return for the two considering the fact that Orioles fans probably value Gausman and Schoop more than the rest of baseball.

Tony,

What happen to Gausman, he was supposed to be a sure bet TOR guy, and never came close to it.

Did they over-value him?

Did they under coach him?

If he going to end up like Jake, where some other team, gets him to be all that he could be.

 

[Redskins Rick]

9 minutes ago, atomic said:

Everyone said how much easier it is to sell than to buy when comparing DD to MacPhail.  But then DD gets robbed in a sell-off.  Time to admit he is just bad at his job.  I think the Chen and Miquel signings were in the works before he got here.  There is a reason he was out of baseball for 10 years.  

Lets give Andy some more time in Philly, before we anoint him Golden GM of the century.

I think you are being overly harsh on DD, I dont think you keep in mind, that the GM does have some boundaries to work set by the ownership.

I think you are the only person that I have seen so far, claiming DD got robbed. Lets give it some time, before you make that rash judgement.

I think back to the Cowboys and making 2 key trades for lots of prospects and getting the number 1 slot in the draft, it set them up for a solid 10 year run.

 

 

 

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

First off, I would wait a couple of years before you judge these deals using your criteria of comparison.  

Second, clearly the International slot and O’Day factored into the Gausman deal.  

We can judge them now and also in a few years.   Trading Gausman and Schoop and not getting a top 100 prospect in return is a baseball sin.

If the O's are tearing it down their payroll is going to be very low on the next few year with or without O'Day.   Who would they be paying?  Davis (23m).  Trumbo (13.5m)Cashner (9.5m)and O'day (9m) for a year.   And they may have been traded at the deadline if not before.  Maybe Cobb (14m).  Everyone else is tradable or a FA or releasable.    That a 69m in 2019 and 37m in 2020 plus the minimum for everyone else.  Low, low payrolls. 

The task at hand is to get the best players back that is possible.   Players to build with.   Top 100 players.   These trades failed at getting the best quality back.

[atomic]

Just now, wildcard said:

We can judge them now and also in a few years.   Trading Gausman and Schoop and not getting a top 100 prospect in return is a baseball sin.

If the O's are tearing it down their payroll is got be be very low on the next few year with or without O'Day.   Who would they be paying?  Davis (23m).  Trumbo (13.5m)Cashner (9.5m)and O'day (9m) for a year.   And they may have been traded at the deadline if not before.  Maybe Cobb (14m).  Everyone else is tradable or a FA or releasable.    That a 69m in 2019 and 37m in 2020 plus the minimum for everyone else.  Low, low payrolls. 

The task at hand is to get the best players back that is possible.   Players to build with.   Top 100 players.   These trades failed at getting the best quality back.

I think the owners have decided to sell. This wasn't about maximizing return it was about minimizing salary.  They wanted to unload Jones very badly as well and probably would have gotten nothing in return because they wouldn't have been willing to take on any of his salary. 

[wildcard]

Just now, atomic said:

I think the owners have decided to sell. This wasn't about maximizing return it was about minimizing salary.  They wanted to unload Jones very badly as well and probably would have gotten nothing in return because they wouldn't have been willing to take on any of his salary. 

We don't know that the owners are selling.  

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Lets give Andy some more time in Philly, before we anoint him Golden GM of the century.

I think you are being overly harsh on DD, I dont think you keep in mind, that the GM does have some boundaries to work set by the ownership.

I think you are the only person that I have seen so far, claiming DD got robbed. Lets give it some time, before you make that rash judgement.

I think back to the Cowboys and making 2 key trades for lots of prospects and getting the number 1 slot in the draft, it set them up for a solid 10 year run.

 

 

 

Andy was not the best GM.  But he made some of the best trades I have seen.

[Rene88]

My goodness. The obsession with AM on the OH is so bizarre and weird. He made some good trades, definitely. But that’s  all he did. He was a pretty lousy GM besides that. People celebrating the Bedard Trade like we got a ring. 

Give it up, let her go. Move on with your life:) 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Rene88 said:

My goodness. The obsession with AM on the OH is so bizarre and weird. He made some good trades, definitely. But that’s  all he did. He was a pretty lousy GM besides that. People celebrating the Bedard Trade like we got a ring. 

Give it up, let her go. Move on with your life:) 

Holy Crayola Crayons Batman, we do agree on something!

The thing with Bedard, that trade got us 5 players we didn;t know, and 2 of those five helped us in the playoffs twice in 5 years.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Rene88 said:

My goodness. The obsession with AM on the OH is so bizarre and weird. He made some good trades, definitely. But hats all he did. He was a pretty lousy GM besides that. People celebrating the Bedard Trade like we got a ring. 

Give it up, let her go. Move on with your life:) 

I agree about him as a GM.  But he sure could do some good trades.  That is all I am saying.  Bedard, Hardy, Davis and Hunter.........

[eddie83]

Just now, wildcard said:

We can judge them now and also in a few years.   Trading Gausman and Schoop and not getting a top 100 prospect in return is a baseball sin.

If the O's are tearing it down their payroll is got be be very low on the next few year with or without O'Day.   Who would they be paying?  Davis (23m).  Trumbo (13.5m)Cashner (9.5m)and O'day (9m) for a year.   And they may have been traded at the deadline if not before.  Maybe Cobb (14m).  Everyone else is tradable or a FA or releasable.    That a 69m in 2019 and 37m in 2020 plus the minimum for everyone else.  Low, low payrolls. 

The task at hand is to get the best players back that is possible.   Players to build with.   Top 100 players.   These trades failed at getting the best quality back.

Most of the prospects they got back are rising ones. They may not be Top 100. Once again not that many Top prospects were dealt in all these deals.  A total of 2. 

I doubt Dan traded O’Day to save the Angelos family money unless he had to.  

[atomic]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

We don't know that the owners are selling.  

That is why I put "I think" before my statement.  Seems likely though.  Peter Angelos is said to be in poor health.  

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I agree about him as a GM.  But he sure could do some good trades.  That is all I am saying.  Bedard, Hardy, Davis and Hunter.........

Andy did do a lot of good things, more importantly, he got Peter to back off every single movement, and he got Peter committed to fixing Florida ST.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, atomic said:

That is why I put "I think" before my statement.  Seems likely though.  Peter Angelos is said to be in poor health.  

I dont think the team is selling.

I know fans are clinging onto that hope, like ship wreck passengers on the Titanic.