2019 Trade Deadline

[sportsfan8703]

29 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

It was still a terrible trade. A pure pathetic salary dump. Gausman has been inconsistent his whole career, but he'd still be the #2 SP on our team. I didn't dive into the pitch info for his last start, but in general he's been much more successful when he's thrown his slider more. 

It was a great trade. We shed O’days salary last year and this year. Same with Gausman. Gausman will be non tendered. If he’s so great we can bring him back. Plus we got 4 guys that are in our top 40 of our organization, and intl money. 

People hate on the trade returns but let this sink in... Schoop was non tendered. Gausman will be non tendered. 

Now look at this year’s trade and potential trades. Cashner could very well be in the pen soon. Villar if traded will be non tendered this offseason. 

As for this year, I only see Villar going. Mancini is worth more to us then is trade value/market demand. Givens value can be built up with a better managed work load and actually converting saves. 

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

It was a great trade. We shed O’days salary last year and this year. Same with Gausman. Gausman will be non tendered. If he’s so great we can bring him back. Plus we got 4 guys that are in our top 40 of our organization, and intl money. 

People hate on the trade returns but let this sink in... Schoop was non tendered. Gausman will be non tendered. 

Now look at this year’s trade and potential trades. Cashner could very well be in the pen soon. Villar if traded will be non tendered this offseason. 

As for this year, I only see Villar going. Mancini is worth more to us then is trade value/market demand. Givens value can be built up with a better managed work load and actually converting saves. 

If we wouldn't have muddied the waters by trying to dump O'Day's salary we could have gotten one of the Braves top tier pitching prospects in return for Gausman. Prioritizing saving money, when O'Days salary was coming off the books soon anyway, over getting a top prospect was a mistake.Especially as desperate as we are for pitching prospects.  What happens post trade (i.e., if the player is non-tendered) is irrelevant. Also what exactly did we do with that international money?

[mdbdotcom]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

If we wouldn't have muddied the waters by trying to dump O'Day's salary we could have gotten one of the Braves top tier pitching prospects in return for Gausman. Prioritizing saving money, when O'Days salary was coming off the books soon anyway, over getting a top prospect was a mistake.Especially as desperate as we are for pitching prospects.  What happens post trade (i.e., if the player is non-tendered) is irrelevant. Also what exactly did we do with that international money?

I don't believe the Braves have traded any of their top prospects, and I don't think they would have for Gausman. I see no reason to believe that we could have gotten a top prospect back for him. 

[interloper]

Hot take!

The Gausman/O'Day trade was fine. 

Shrug. 

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, mdbdotcom said:

I don't believe the Braves have traded any of their top prospects, and I don't think they would have for Gausman. I see no reason to believe that we could have gotten a top prospect back for him. 

They were in a desperate situation last year. Unexpectedly in contention and getting pressure from their fan base to make a move. I think they would have blinked. I think we could have gotten a Max Fried, Kyle Wright, Bryse Wilson type. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

If we wouldn't have muddied the waters by trying to dump O'Day's salary we could have gotten one of the Braves top tier pitching prospects in return for Gausman. 

You have absolutely no way of knowing this.    Complete speculation on your part.   The guy was throwing to a 4.43 ERA when we traded him.    There’s no assurance at all Atlanta would have traded a top prospect for that.    Would the package have been better without O’Day?   Sure.    How much better is anyone’s guess.   For all we know Atlanta wouldn’t part with top prospects but offered to take O’Day to induce the O’s to make the trade anyway.   

By the way, at the time of that deal nobody knew that O’Day would miss any time this season.   

[mdbdotcom]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

They were in a desperate situation last year. Unexpectedly in contention and getting pressure from their fan base to make a move. I think they would have blinked. I think we could have gotten a Max Fried, Kyle Wright, Bryse Wilson type. 

I think you're wrong. My only proof being that they haven't traded any top prospects to improve the team yet. Had they been willing to, they might have landed someone better than Gausman.

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, Frobby said:

You have absolutely no way of knowing this.    Complete speculation on your part.   The guy was throwing to a 4.43 ERA when we traded him.    There’s no assurance at all Atlanta would have traded a top prospect for that.    Would the package have been better without O’Day?   Sure.    How much better is anyone’s guess.   For all we know Atlanta wouldn’t part with top prospects but offered to take O’Day to induce the O’s to make the trade anyway.   

By the way, at the time of that deal nobody knew that O’Day would miss any time this season.   

The bolded part is really all that matters. We can speculate all day on the potential return, but the bottom line is choosing financial relief over young players was a mistake. It's not like the team's payroll was astronomical, even when we were saddled with O'Day's contract. Also, other teams were rumored to be interested in Gausman. The Pirates were one of those teams and the Rays were able to land BOTH Glasnow and Meadows for Archer. Archer and Gausman are probably more comparable then we'd care to admit. 

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The bolded part is really all that matters. We can speculate all day on the potential return, but the bottom line is choosing financial relief over young players was a mistake. It's not like the team's payroll was astronomical, even when we were saddled with O'Day's contract. Also, other teams were rumored to be interested in Gausman. The Pirates were one of those teams and the Rays were able to land BOTH Glasnow and Meadows for Archer. Archer and Gausman are probably more comparable then we'd care to admit. 

I don’t concede that choosing financial relief over a better player package was necessarily a mistake.    The money can be used in the future for other things, whether that is upgrading facilities or scouting resources or simply acquiring/retaining players at a later time.   $15 mm isn’t chicken feed.   

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t concede that choosing financial relief over a better player package was necessarily a mistake.    The money can be used in the future for other things, whether that is upgrading facilities or scouting resources or simply acquiring/retaining players at a later time.   $15 mm isn’t chicken feed.   

It may not have been a choice, either. It may have been a mandate, we don't really know. 

[wildbillhiccup]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t concede that choosing financial relief over a better player package was necessarily a mistake.    The money can be used in the future for other things, whether that is upgrading facilities or scouting resources or simply acquiring/retaining players at a later time.   $15 mm isn’t chicken feed.   

...or they could have just spent $15M more on other things. Like I said, it's not like the total payroll was out of control. 

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, interloper said:

It may not have been a choice, either. It may have been a mandate, we don't really know. 

Do you mean from the Angelos brothers or the Braves? 

[interloper]

Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

Do you mean from the Angelos brothers or the Braves? 

I was speaking from the Angelos angle.

[jamalshw]

23 minutes ago, interloper said:

It may not have been a choice, either. It may have been a mandate, we don't really know. 

This. Often when teams are going into a rebuild they need to slash spending. Revenues are going to go down when you are not any good. Fortunately, TV contracts stay stagnant, but ticket sales and merchandise takes a hit when a team isn't very good.

[mdbdotcom]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Ditto.  The poster you quoted is taking a giant leap.

I was just taking a small step.