Are we witnessing the death of the Orioles?

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

Thinking more about this, it's ridiculous MLB still doesn't have a pitch clock. Pitchers and batters being allowed to take an unlimited amount of time between pitches is just absurd. Imagine the NFL without a play clock.

Well, it’s a bit different when the game itself ends after the clock has run out, something that happens in football, basketball and hockey.   And I’m old enough to remember college basketball with no clock.    In fact, the last basketball game I attended my senior year at Duke, they were leading UNC 7-0 at halftime due to Dean Smith’s four corners tactics (which, happily, failed miserably in that game).    And while in law school, I attended a game where Oregon State beat Stanford 18-16.  

[spiritof66]

13 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

Thinking more about this, it's ridiculous MLB still doesn't have a pitch clock. Pitchers and batters being allowed to take an unlimited amount of time between pitches is just absurd. Imagine the NFL without a play clock.

Agreed. 

For me, the inordinate amount of time between pitches harms the game not only by making games last longer. Especially with certain pitchers, that down-time disrupts things so much that when I watch a game on TV or on the internet I am increasingly likely to find something to do between pitches -- change channels, read, read (or write) posts on the Game Thread, watch another game on MLB, or otherwise surf the internet -- and sometimes I get distracted and don't return to the game right away. I don't feel that lapse if I'm at a game -- there's plenty to look at and talk about between pitches, and many fewer distractions -- but when I'm watching in a room full of other stuff to do it happens. (I used to react in much the same way watching football on TV when teams took 30 seconds or so huddling between plays.)

I have no proof of this, but I believe the problem is pretty well entrenched at all levels of baseball, at least in the U.S. Guys who come up as pitchers are trained to believe, and it may be true, that they get an advantage from working deliberately so that they have time to focus their minds and their mechanics on each pitch. MBL and MiL managers and coaches then say, again maybe accurately, that if certain of their pitchers are forced to speed up, their chances of success will be adversely affected. So nothing -- or nothing decisive -- happens.

Based on the above, I don't think you can flip a switch and enforce a pitch clock immediately. It could be phased in, I guess. But the critical step is to commit to, and announce, the rigid enactment and enforcement of a 15- or 20-second pitch clock in organized baseball in, say, three years, sending an unambiguous to young pitchers and their coaches that if those pitchers aspire to play professionally, they'd better learn to do what pitchers did for almost 100 years: receive the ball, take a sign, wind up or stretch, and throw the damn thing toward the plate right away.

I pulled this video of a 1975 World Series game randomly from YouTube. Again randomly, I looked at about 10-12 pitches. The times from pitchers receipt of the ball to throwing it (excluding one time when the batter stepped out of the box and another when a foul line umpire called time out) ranged from about 11 to 18 seconds. 12-14 seemed typical. 

This can be fixed. I don't know much the fix would help the game. If there's a reason not to try to find out, that reason escapes me.

[JR Oriole]

I think it would help a lot.  There is no need for the batter to leave the box after every pitch, go fidget with their batting gloves, stare at the bat, look all around the stadium, adjust themselves, and then get back in.  Stay in the damn box and hit.  And for the pitcher, get the ball, take about 10 seconds to set and look around the diamond, and throw it.  These at-bats take forever and hitters foul off so many pitches that it just takes too long.

[theocean]

57 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

Is this cause or consequence though? Have you asked yourself why networks or even ESPN are not buying these games?

FOX just paid $5.1 billion for 2022-2028 MLB postseason rights. That's a ton of money. There's clearly demand on behalf of the networks. I'm sure MLB could figure out a way to get their playoff games to be easily accessible and also make a ton of money.

[Redskins Rick]

38 minutes ago, theocean said:

FOX just paid $5.1 billion for 2022-2028 MLB postseason rights. That's a ton of money. There's clearly demand on behalf of the networks. I'm sure MLB could figure out a way to get their playoff games to be easily accessible and also make a ton of money.

Fox has deep pockets and pushing their FOX sports, they want to the "ESPN" of todays sport world.

I would love to see the figures at the end of that contract, to see the expenses and money raised by revenue to see if they dont like up like ESPN and losing money.

 

[theocean]

9 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Fox has deep pockets and pushing their FOX sports, they want to the "ESPN" of todays sport world.

I would love to see the figures at the end of that contract, to see the expenses and money raised by revenue to see if they dont like up like ESPN and losing money.

 

They just renewed the deal last year, after the deal they signed in 2012 was nearing an end. It must be working well for them.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, theocean said:

They just renewed the deal last year, after the deal they signed in 2012 was nearing an end. It must be working well for them.

Glad to hear it.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

Agreed. 

For me, the inordinate amount of time between pitches harms the game not only by making games last longer. Especially with certain pitchers, that down-time disrupts things so much that when I watch a game on TV or on the internet I am increasingly likely to find something to do between pitches -- change channels, read, read (or write) posts on the Game Thread, watch another game on MLB, or otherwise surf the internet -- and sometimes I get distracted and don't return to the game right away. I don't feel that lapse if I'm at a game -- there's plenty to look at and talk about between pitches, and many fewer distractions -- but when I'm watching in a room full of other stuff to do it happens. (I used to react in much the same way watching football on TV when teams took 30 seconds or so huddling between plays.)

I have no proof of this, but I believe the problem is pretty well entrenched at all levels of baseball, at least in the U.S. Guys who come up as pitchers are trained to believe, and it may be true, that they get an advantage from working deliberately so that they have time to focus their minds and their mechanics on each pitch. MBL and MiL managers and coaches then say, again maybe accurately, that if certain of their pitchers are forced to speed up, their chances of success will be adversely affected. So nothing -- or nothing decisive -- happens.

Based on the above, I don't think you can flip a switch and enforce a pitch clock immediately. It could be phased in, I guess. But the critical step is to commit to, and announce, the rigid enactment and enforcement of a 15- or 20-second pitch clock in organized baseball in, say, three years, sending an unambiguous to young pitchers and their coaches that if those pitchers aspire to play professionally, they'd better learn to do what pitchers did for almost 100 years: receive the ball, take a sign, wind up or stretch, and throw the damn thing toward the plate right away.

I pulled this video of a 1975 World Series game randomly from YouTube. Again randomly, I looked at about 10-12 pitches. The times from pitchers receipt of the ball to throwing it (excluding one time when the batter stepped out of the box and another when a foul line umpire called time out) ranged from about 11 to 18 seconds. 12-14 seemed typical. 

This can be fixed. I don't know much the fix would help the game. If there's a reason not to try to find out, that reason escapes me.

In the old days, prior to WWII, everyone was incentivized to move the game along because most games were late afternoon.  If you start at 5:00 and have no lights and it's prior to daylight savings time being a thing... you move it along or you have games called due to darkness. And you have to start at 5:00 because work.  I've said before I'd be okay with a rule that says the game ends after three hours. All stop.  Like the old days.  Move it along or you don't get all your innings. I realize that's not going to happen.

The real solution here is an automatic ball if a pitch isn't thrown by 20 seconds.  No more of this "well.. I know that's the rule, but he had dust in his eye or missed the sign or needed some more pine tar, so we had to make exceptions with 80% of pitches."  And really, actually enforce the stepping out rule.  You step out of the box and it just doesn't matter.  The pitcher has to pitch anyway.  If it's strike three, it's strike three.  You have to have a 2x4 sticking out of a body part before the ump will grant time.  The will has to be there to enforce the rules.

[weams]

2 hours ago, theocean said:

FOX just paid $5.1 billion for 2022-2028 MLB postseason rights. That's a ton of money. There's clearly demand on behalf of the networks. I'm sure MLB could figure out a way to get their playoff games to be easily accessible and also make a ton of money.

Of course it is. ANd the TNT, TBS is a legacy deal which was a big deal at the time.

Quote

In April 2017, in order to expedite the sale of Time Warner to AT&T by shedding FCC-licensed properties, WPCH-TV was sold to Meredith Corporation, which had already been operating WPCH under a local marketing agreement since 2011 as a sister to its local CBS affiliate WGCL-TV.^[28] Turner Podcast Network was formed within Turner Content Distribution in June 2017 with Tyler Moody being named general manager and vice president of the unit.^[29]

On March 22, 2018, Six Flags and Riverside Group announced a partnership with Turner Asia Pacific to bring attractions based on Tuzki and other Turner-owned IPs to its theme parks in China.^[30]

On June 15, 2018, it was announced that John Martin would be leaving as CEO following AT&T's completed acquisition of Time Warner, which would later be renamed WarnerMedia once the acquisition was completed.^[31] By September, AT&T had transferred its Audience channel, a group of regional sports networks plus stakes in Game Show Network and MLB Network to Turner from AT&T Communications.^{[32][failed verification]}

In December 2018, Turner Broadcasting sold the rights to the brand and its pre-2008 original programming library of defunct cable network Court TV (which relaunched as truTV in 2008) to Katz Broadcasting, with plans to re-launch it as an over-the-air digital network in May 2019.^[33][34]

On March 4, 2019, AT&T announced a major reorganization of its broadcasting assets to effectively dissolve Turner Broadcasting System. Its assets are to be dispersed across multiple units of WarnerMedia, including the newly-created WarnerMedia Entertainment and WarnerMedia News & Sports. WarnerMedia Entertainment would consist of HBO, TBS, TNT, TruTV, and an upcoming direct-to-consumer video service (led by former NBC entertainment chief Robert Greenblatt), while WarnerMedia News & Sports would consist of CNN, Turner Sports, and the AT&T SportsNet regional networks (which would be led by CNN Worldwide president Jeff Zucker). Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, Boomerang, and Turner Classic Movies would be moved under Warner Bros. Entertainment via the new "Global Kids & Young Adults" business unit.^[35][36] Although AT&T did not specify any timetable for the changes, WarnerMedia had already begun to remove references to Turner Broadcasting in corporate communications, with press releases referring to its networks as being "divisions of WarnerMedia".^[37]

 

[Roll Tide]

7 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Yes, that's part of it. Much bigger news these days than if any baseball player gets injured.

I think baseball can still be saved, but they are going to have to stop being stubborn before it's too late. They sorely need quicker games, electronic ball and strikes, and perhaps a shorter regular season, to make each game mean more. The first two are a must though.

I think a serious injury to Mike Trout would probably dominate the headlines on the day it happened.

[ORIOLE33]

7 hours ago, theocean said:

Last night it really hit me, but baseball's biggest problem might be that its biggest playoff games are on TBS. The Yankees and Astros have some of the biggest and most marketable players in the game. It is exactly the type of game that should be use to expand the game.

I wanted to watch it. But as a cord cutting millennial, it was simply too difficult for me to get it on my TV. I ended up watching Joe Flacco throw to empty parts of the field during the lousy Thursday Night Football game.

So, if me, a huge baseball fan isn't even going through the trouble to watch a ALCS game between two big teams - - what are casual fans doing!?

VERY good point. Why the hell aren’t the ALCS and the NLCS on FOX? 

[Frobby]

26 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

VERY good point. Why the hell aren’t the ALCS and the NLCS on FOX? 

The NLCS is on FOX (FS1).    FOX gets the World Series and alternates between the ALCS and the NLCS each year, with TBS getting the other championship series.     

[atomic]

On 10/17/2019 at 4:35 PM, Frobby said:

That is undoubtedly true.    I do think that the traffic problems getting into FedEx are worse than at some other places, which then encourages people to arrive very early and therefore start drinking very early.    But, no doubt tailgating is a part of football culture and many people would be doing it even if there were no traffic difficulties.    So, point taken.   And I’m glad your group had a designated driver but I fear that there are plenty who do not.   

I enjoy attending baseball games in person over nfl games.  Football fans  are predominantly large  adult men yelling at the the top of their lungs for 3 hours.  I find the game hard to follow in person.  And all the commercial breaks are pretty unbearable when you are out in the cold.

Football games are not a family atmosphere.

[atomic]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

Well, it’s a bit different when the game itself ends after the clock has run out, something that happens in football, basketball and hockey.   And I’m old enough to remember college basketball with no clock.    In fact, the last basketball game I attended my senior year at Duke, they were leading UNC 7-0 at halftime due to Dean Smith’s four corners tactics (which, happily, failed miserably in that game).    And while in law school, I attended a game where Oregon State beat Stanford 18-16.  

Dean Smith had great players and played 4 corners.  An example of a coach trying to destroy a sport.  All these managers with 10 pitching changes are ruining baseball.  They need to fix it.

[atomic]

21 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

There's something odd to me about drinking wine while watching a live sporting event. It might be OK for croquet or bocce, or tennis or even golf. Or an international soccer match between France and Italy.

Beer for a baseball or basketball game. Beer or whiskey (if it's cold) for football. I think the only time I drank whiskey at a baseball game was Game 2 of the 1979 World Series, when it snowed up in the cheap seats. (Back then, you could bring pretty much anything into the ballpark that wasn't alive or ticking.) I needed the whiskey more after the game than during it. Manny Sanguillen, sheesh. Really.

I prefer beer.  But I went to music festival that had bottles of wine that they would pour into a sports bottle.  Red Wine is great warm.  So getting one drink and lasting the day is great.