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On This Day In 1970: May 2


cboemmeljr

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On 5/3/2020 at 8:18 PM, MongoBoy said:

Is that the year Bumbry took a home run away from an A (Joe Rudi, maybe?) in the playoffs?

It was either '73 or '74 I think it was Sal Bando who got robbed by Bumbry.  Unfortunately Bando hit another HR later in that same game to win the game for the A's.  The Orioles couldn't quite get by that A's team in the playoffs,, or they'd probably have won another WS or two in '73-'74. 

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On 5/3/2020 at 8:18 PM, MongoBoy said:

Is that the year Bumbry took a home run away from an A (Joe Rudi, maybe?) in the playoffs?

 

3 hours ago, Maverick Hiker said:

It was either '73 or '74 I think it was Sal Bando who got robbed by Bumbry.  Unfortunately Bando hit another HR later in that same game to win the game for the A's.  The Orioles couldn't quite get by that A's team in the playoffs,, or they'd probably have won another WS or two in '73-'74. 

You guys have excellent memories -  I had to look it up!    It was game 2 of the 1973 ALCS, won 6-3 by the A’s.     Per The NY Times:

With Joe Rudi on first, Bando lashed a high drive to left field that appeared on its way out of Memorial Stadium. But Al Bumbry, the 5‐foot‐8‐inch Oriole “hummingbird,” leaped and stuck his glove above the seven‐foot‐high fence to make the catch.


“That just made me more determined,” said Bando, sipping a can of soda in the Oakland dressing room. “I told my roommate, Gene Tenace, I was going to hit one next time they won't catch.”

He did. It was a rising drive high into the left‐field stands in the sixth. This time, Bumbry just stood with his hands on his hips, watching the ball disappear.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/10/08/archives/nervous-bando-calmer-after-2-homers-orioles-box-score.html

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34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

You guys have excellent memories -  I had to look it up!    It was game 2 of the 1973 ALCS, won 6-3 by the A’s.     Per The NY Times:

With Joe Rudi on first, Bando lashed a high drive to left field that appeared on its way out of Memorial Stadium. But Al Bumbry, the 5‐foot‐8‐inch Oriole “hummingbird,” leaped and stuck his glove above the seven‐foot‐high fence to make the catch.


“That just made me more determined,” said Bando, sipping a can of soda in the Oakland dressing room. “I told my roommate, Gene Tenace, I was going to hit one next time they won't catch.”

He did. It was a rising drive high into the left‐field stands in the sixth. This time, Bumbry just stood with his hands on his hips, watching the ball disappear.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/10/08/archives/nervous-bando-calmer-after-2-homers-orioles-box-score.html

I never saw the game cause it was back in the days where they actually played playoff games during the day cause tv ratings wasn't at the top of the list.  I never got home from school until the final 1 or 2 innings.  But, I do remember seeing the picture in the paper the next day showing Bumbry catching the ball with a huge smile on his face.

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10 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

You guys have excellent memories -  I had to look it up!    It was game 2 of the 1973 ALCS, won 6-3 by the A’s.     Per The NY Times:

With Joe Rudi on first, Bando lashed a high drive to left field that appeared on its way out of Memorial Stadium. But Al Bumbry, the 5‐foot‐8‐inch Oriole “hummingbird,” leaped and stuck his glove above the seven‐foot‐high fence to make the catch.


“That just made me more determined,” said Bando, sipping a can of soda in the Oakland dressing room. “I told my roommate, Gene Tenace, I was going to hit one next time they won't catch.”

He did. It was a rising drive high into the left‐field stands in the sixth. This time, Bumbry just stood with his hands on his hips, watching the ball disappear.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/10/08/archives/nervous-bando-calmer-after-2-homers-orioles-box-score.html

Now I  recall reading the Bando quote about telling Tenace hitting one they won't catch, in the Baltimore Sun, the day after the Oakland game in 1973. .That didn't help my frame of mind.  Bando was a big clod, hit for a low average and  was a mediocre 3rd baseman, his HR power kept him in the league.  I did not like that Oakland team especially after they beat the Orioles in the playoffs two years in a row.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, Maverick Hiker said:

Now I  recall reading the Bando quote about telling Tenace hitting one they won't catch, in the Baltimore Sun, the day after the Oakland game in 1973. .That didn't help my frame of mind.  Bando was a big clod, hit for a low average and  was a mediocre 3rd baseman, his HR power kept him in the league.  I did not like that Oakland team especially after they beat the Orioles in the playoffs two years in a row.  

I can’t agree with your take on Bando.  Bando was a 61 WAR player.    He finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the MVP voting and was a 4-time all star.    He had a career OPS+ of 119 and was +35 Rtot at 3B in the field.    He’s solidly in the Hall of the Very Good.    

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On 5/5/2020 at 8:09 PM, Maverick Hiker said:

Now I  recall reading the Bando quote about telling Tenace hitting one they won't catch, in the Baltimore Sun, the day after the Oakland game in 1973. .That didn't help my frame of mind.  Bando was a big clod, hit for a low average and  was a mediocre 3rd baseman, his HR power kept him in the league.  I did not like that Oakland team especially after they beat the Orioles in the playoffs two years in a row.  

 

 

The Oakland uniforms never computed for me, especially the white shoes, which I thought belonged only on a golf course. They were good enough to represent the AL legitimately, but jeez imagine how different baseball history's perception of the Orioles would be if they had been in the WS 1966, 1969-71, and 1973-74! The starting rotation from '69 onwards anchored by Palmer, McNally, and Cuellar, with a great fourth starter mixed in like Dobson (in '74, it was Ross Grimsley), the four B's (Brooks, Boog, Belanger, Blair), and future stars like Grich and Baylor taking over for Davey Johnson and Frank. That would have really sealed the franchise's place in baseball history.

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On 5/6/2020 at 6:42 AM, Frobby said:

I can’t agree with your take on Bando.  Bando was a 61 WAR player.    He finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the MVP voting and was a 4-time all star.    He had a career OPS+ of 119 and was +35 Rtot at 3B in the field.    He’s solidly in the Hall of the Very Good.    

On the other hand Bando was #309 all time in hit into DP, which when you consider how many thousands of MLBP there have been, indicates he was slow and killed a lot of rallies by grounding into a DP.  

Also while it is impressive that he almost won the MVP for several years, when I look at his stats for those years I wonder why he came so close to MVP.  For example in 1971 .271 24 HR 94 RBI , how is this a MVP year? It's a good season no doubt but not on MVP level. Yet Bando finished 2nd MVP that year 1971  indicating  to me that the MVP  voting was off for some reason. 

Defensively Bando didn't win a single gold glove all his seasons played and only one year he made the top 10 in defensive WAR and that year 1972 he was 10th.  As I recall he was solid but kind of like a statue  out there and lacked range.

No doubt Bando was a good solid player but he was not the reason the A's won the WS those years 72-73-74 nor was he on the level of the A's stars. Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Joe Rudi, Rollie Fingers led those A's teams, not Bando.  I think they would have still won those WS if they had any another solid 3B like Clete Boyer or Richie Hebner replace.Bando. . 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Maverick Hiker
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4 hours ago, LA2 said:

The Oakland uniforms never computed for me, especially the white shoes, which I thought belonged only on a golf course. They were good enough to represent the AL legitimately, but jeez imagine how different baseball history's perception of the Orioles would be if they had been in the WS 1966, 1969-71, and 1973-74! The starting rotation from '69 onwards anchored by Palmer, McNally, and Cuellar, with a great fourth starter mixed in like Dobson (in '74, it was Ross Grimsley), the four B's (Brooks, Boog, Belanger, Blair), and future stars like Grich and Baylor taking over for Davey Johnson and Frank. That would have really sealed the franchise's place in baseball history.

Yes it's really a shame the Orioles lost to Oakland those years 73-74.  I think one of the series went the max 5 games.  1974 especially was a magical year for the Orioles they came from like 10 games back going into September to catch the Red Sox and win the division when it seemed impossible on Labor Day.  It would have been fitting to top that off with a WS win. The A's blew the Dodgers away 4-1 in the WS that year and I think the Orioles would have won the WS too if they had gotten by Oakland.  So many near misses in Orioles history.....

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9 hours ago, Maverick Hiker said:

On the other hand Bando was #309 all time in hit into DP, which when you consider how many thousands of MLBP there have been, indicates he was slow and killed a lot of rallies by grounding into a DP.  

Also while it is impressive that he almost won the MVP for several years, when I look at his stats for those years I wonder why he came so close to MVP.  For example in 1971 .271 24 HR 94 RBI , how is this a MVP year? It's a good season no doubt but not on MVP level. Yet Bando finished 2nd MVP that year 1971  indicating  to me that the MVP  voting was off for some reason. 

Defensively Bando didn't win a single gold glove all his seasons played and only one year he made the top 10 in defensive WAR and that year 1972 he was 10th.  As I recall he was solid but kind of like a statue  out there and lacked range.

No doubt Bando was a good solid player but he was not the reason the A's won the WS those years 72-73-74 nor was he on the level of the A's stars. Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Joe Rudi, Rollie Fingers led those A's teams, not Bando.  I think they would have still won those WS if they had any another solid 3B like Clete Boyer or Richie Hebner replace.Bando. . 

First of all, let me say it annoys me to this day that the ‘72-74 A’s won three World Series in a row while the ‘69-71 O’s fell short twice.    The O’s teams were vastly superior in my opinion, but the A’s got it done and we didn’t.    

Back to Bando, he was a much more valuable player than Rudi and it isn’t really close.    Taking ‘71-74:

Bando: .

1971 .271/.377/.452, 24 HR 94 RBI, 6.4 WAR

1972 .236/.341/.368, 15 HR 77 RBI, 5.6 WAR

1973: .287/.375/.498, 29 HR 98 RBI, 6.5 WAR

1974: .243/.352/.426, 22 HR 103 RBI, 4.9 WAR

Rudi

1971 .267/.304/.386, 10 HR 52 RBI, 2.3 WAR

1972 .305/.345/.486, 19 HR 75 RBI, 6.1 WAR

1973 .270/.315/.414, 12 HR 66 RBI, 2.4 WAR

1974 .293/.334/.484, 22 HR 99 RBI, 4.7 WAR

Rudi generally hit for higher average but walked very little and had less power.    And 3B is a tougher position than LF.

The argument that the A’s could have won with Hebner or Clete Boyer is a “shrug” argument.    It can’t be proved one way or another.    The A’s were a very balanced team with lots of very good players and no glaring weakness.    If you want my opinion, the reason they won 3 WS and we didn’t is they had Rollie Fingers (1.35 ERA in 33.1 WS innings). 

As to Bando not winning any Gold Gloves, he had Brooks in his way during most of his prime years.    But admittedly Bando was a slightly above average defender, not a great one.    
 

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22 hours ago, Frobby said:

First of all, let me say it annoys me to this day that the ‘72-74 A’s won three World Series in a row while the ‘69-71 O’s fell short twice.    The O’s teams were vastly superior in my opinion, but the A’s got it done and we didn’t.    

Back to Bando, he was a much more valuable player than Rudi and it isn’t really close.    Taking ‘71-74:

Bando: .

1971 .271/.377/.452, 24 HR 94 RBI, 6.4 WAR

1972 .236/.341/.368, 15 HR 77 RBI, 5.6 WAR

1973: .287/.375/.498, 29 HR 98 RBI, 6.5 WAR

1974: .243/.352/.426, 22 HR 103 RBI, 4.9 WAR

Rudi

1971 .267/.304/.386, 10 HR 52 RBI, 2.3 WAR

1972 .305/.345/.486, 19 HR 75 RBI, 6.1 WAR

1973 .270/.315/.414, 12 HR 66 RBI, 2.4 WAR

1974 .293/.334/.484, 22 HR 99 RBI, 4.7 WAR

Rudi generally hit for higher average but walked very little and had less power.    And 3B is a tougher position than LF.

The argument that the A’s could have won with Hebner or Clete Boyer is a “shrug” argument.    It can’t be proved one way or another.    The A’s were a very balanced team with lots of very good players and no glaring weakness.    If you want my opinion, the reason they won 3 WS and we didn’t is they had Rollie Fingers (1.35 ERA in 33.1 WS innings). 

As to Bando not winning any Gold Gloves, he had Brooks in his way during most of his prime years.    But admittedly Bando was a slightly above average defender, not a great one.    
 

I've always favored high average players, and Rudi was good in playoffs and WS.  But that's just my personal preference.

Yes it still bothers me that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games then lost to the Mets in the WS.  And the 1971 Orioles with their four 20 game winners should not have lost to the Pirates in the WS.  So I think they really should have won those 3 years 69-70-71.

So many other near misses. the Orioles should've beaten the Pirates in the 1979 WS. In 1980 they won 100 games and didn't even make the playoffs. 1981 the strike year they had the best overall record but didn't make the playoffs due to the split season (what a dumb idea that was).  And 1982 they swept Milwaukee the last 4 games of the season to tie them,  and forced a one game playoff with Palmer on the mound only to lose that playoff game at home.

So I think the Orioles could have won the World Series in 1969, 1970, 1971, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1983.  They only won in 70 and 83,.  They only won two out of the eight  WS  they could have easily won in 1969 through 1983, the teams glory years. 

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