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If only Elias hadn't traded the 11th best player in baseball (Bundy) for next to nothing

Rojo13

By Rojo13
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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
Just now, scbalt52 said:

This will get bumped in 3 years and then we can have somewhat of an opinion on it. Personally, like Arrieta, I thought Bundy would've had a shot at being dropped from our rotation if they stayed, the same year they won/almost won the Cy Young with the next team. It happens, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Just laugh and keep on building, we're heading in the right direction. We're a half game out of a playoff spot on September 9th and we're "3-5 years away"! Try to enjoy it.

Really?  That's an interesting take.

I didn't think for a second that the O's would have five starters better than Bundy in 2020.

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wildcard
wildcard

Dan Duquette was a good GM for the O's.  There is that what you are looking for?   Dan had a tough job.   Peter Angelos was not easy to work for and did not give Dan a free hand to do what he wanted.

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

Are you telling me you've been on the internet this long and haven't mastered the art of having an opinion without relying on data?

Frobby
Frobby

I have no idea if I like the return we got for Bundy, considering none of the four have pitched this year.   

DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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26 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Really?  That's an interesting take.

I didn't think for a second that the O's would have five starters better than Bundy in 2020.

It wasn't that.  They saw the great success of the '84 Yanks who took the '83 FIP leader (Dave Righetti) and made him a reliever so that five other guys who weren't as good could start.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think the biggest change in the past five years was Peter Angelos pulling back from running the club. The sons seem to allow the GM freedoms that the father never did.  Thrift was well past his expiration date, but I think Beattie, Flanagan, MacPhail, and Duquette would have behaved quite differently under different ownership.

Yes, I think it's clear Peter Angelos was a big problem for a lot of GMs.

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CallMeBrooksie Major Leaguer

CallMeBrooksie

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Peter was a problem but the sons are still an issue.  Better than their dad isn’t a high bar to set, although they have at least cleared that.

In what ways have they been an issue? I haven't heard anything from them since they introduced us to Mike. Oh, and there was that one time they spoke out to dispel the relocation rumors.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

Posted
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4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

As for the Bundy trade, I think Elias took the gamble that Bundy was at his highest value with his price tag increasing. We obviously still don't know what the Orioles have really received in the 4 pitchers acquired for him, but I don't think I would have any in the top 20 prospects and that's a little disappointing. 

You brought up a good point about the parks he's been pitching in and Anaheim is much better than Camden Yards for him as well, so it's doubtful he would be putting up the same numbers. 

His pitch selection has moved more slider heavy which started last year as well with the Orioles, but it's not like his stuff took a huge step forward.

I'm not going to say Elias gave Bundy away until we see how the pitchers he acquired develop and even if he did, there's not a ton of evidence that suggests he would put up the numbers he's putting up this year pitching in Camden Yards and against the AL and NL East teams.

I think Bundy would be showing improvement regardless of the ballpark or the opposition.    He already was improving as of the end of 2019, IMO.     But perhaps a further tweak to his pitch mix and the more pitcher-friendly environment has helped him.    I don’t think we’ll really know until next year when (hopefully) we have a full year’s sample to examine.   He won’t make enough starts this year to know how he’d hold up over the full season.   

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Natty Hangout Veteran Council

Natty

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53 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Peter was a problem but the sons are still an issue.  Better than their dad isn’t a high bar to set, although they have at least cleared that.

As soon as the sons had to take control, they said the team is for sale. 

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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50 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

In what ways have they been an issue? I haven't heard anything from them since they introduced us to Mike. Oh, and there was that one time they spoke out to dispel the relocation rumors.

Money is still the driving force for them.  That has been pretty obvious by the way deals have been handled.

When they allow Elias to do what he wants, I will be good.

But going back to the Gausman deal, they have cared much more about saving money than anything else when it comes to trading.  

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Money is still the driving force for them.  That has been pretty obvious by the way deals have been handled.

When they allow Elias to do what he wants, I will be good.

But going back to the Gausman deal, they have cared much more about saving money than anything else when it comes to trading.  

You know the Gausman deal was all about that International slot money. 

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CallMeBrooksie Major Leaguer

CallMeBrooksie

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1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Money is still the driving force for them.  That has been pretty obvious by the way deals have been handled.

When they allow Elias to do what he wants, I will be good.

But going back to the Gausman deal, they have cared much more about saving money than anything else when it comes to trading.  

Money is going to be a primary concern for any owner. Other than holding on to Davis, I don't see any other evidence of ownership not allowing Elias to do what he wants to do. He's pretty much done exactly what he said he was going to do so far.

It's a tear down and re-build. Salary needed to be shed. Yes, the Gausman/O'Day deal was a salary dump... one that I think they did well in considering they received a potential rotation piece/long-man.

IF it's 2022 and they're still not spending on the big-league roster, then you might convince me.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

 

It wasn't that.

They saw the great success of the 1984 Yankees, who took the 1983 FIP leader (Dave Righetti) and made him a reliever so that 5 other guys who weren't as good could start.

 

o

 

 

o

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